Traci Barrett: Navigating the Journey

Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Escape Velocity. Today, i am joined by Traci Barrett. ah Tracy runs ah Navigate the Journey and has also written a wonderful book, which we can talk about as well. um And also his you know has a really interesting background from being one of the founding team that started HGTV to, which I think is really interesting, um also having an MA in professional psychology. So just a really interesting background. Yeah. She has navigated her own journey very thoughtfully and I think has taken a lot of those lessons um and put them into the book. What if there's more finding significance beyond success? And, you know, there's a lot to talk about. I also will say I worked with Tracy in the past and um had a great experience. So all that, welcome. let Thank you for joining me. Glad you're here.

Well, I'm so glad to be here too. so This is great.

um So many questions. I mean, you, from your perspective of going through your own journey and then kind of using that process to reflect on how you wanted to work with other people, what it you you know, where did that start? Was it, was it going through that the, the HGTV experience that just kind of made you realize that these things are not just sort of set it and you're just on the road and you don't have to worry about anything anymore. And your career is often, often roaring. um Were there any aha moments early on that, that have led you in this direction?

ah Yeah, that's a great question. I think for me, you know, when you're part of a startup, you're not sure if it's going to be successful or not successful. It's ah it's a big um risk, but there's a ton of reward. And I was just lucky enough to kind of fall into a great startup. And when great startups take off, you are given a lot of responsibility, probably even before you should have it. So i became a

Thank you.

a leader at a media company at a really young age. I mean, I was promoted to be a vice president at 29 and I was overseeing people and doing things and making decisions that probably I had no good right doing. But that's what happens when you're on a roller coaster and it's taking off. And I think one of the things I realized, and many people realize this in their career, is there's not a lot of training to be a leader. There's not, you know, there's books out there. And, you know, I'm talking way back in the mid-1990s when I was in corporate America. There wasn't a lot of, like, management training or um leadership training and definitely not at HGTV because we didn't even have an HR department when we started. it was just, you know, a handful of us.

Right.

So I think that... struggle of trying to figure out like, who am I as a leader? How am I supposed to do this? How do you best meet people where they are? What do people really want? What do they need? How do you motivate? All of those questions swirling around, I think is is what kind of started me on this journey of you know wanting to understand more, wanting to like get a degree in psychology, wanting to be good leader. And that has just taken me across the last 30 years of my career.

Well, let me ask you this. um I always share this with my teams. um ah you know I remind them that nobody's going to show up and give them the certificate that says they're an expert now.

hmm.

um And there also is no sort of like judgmental overseeing entity that that is going to swoop in and say, oh, no you don't you haven't earned the right to say that. You don't have any business being here. you know it's It's not imposter syndrome. It's more just that I think people wait to lean into leadership um because they they feel like they're not they don't have the credentials or the you know the authority or whatever it might be. How did you, you know, obviously there wasn't a lot of guidance around this, but how did you give yourself permission? don't

Well, I don't know if I ever thought about whether i have permission to do this or not.

know. time.

I think that i had a lot of drive and I wanted

man huh

to you know make a difference, make something happen in my life and other people's lives. And I think I realized that that whole concept of on-the-job training You know, it's very much, you know, what kind of happens more in the trades and we don't really talk about it as much in a corporate business environment is this you're going to learn as you go.

Yeah.

You know, you're going to it's OK to not know everything. And even more, you're never going to know everything.

Yeah.

And you're right. There's no certificate. There's no, you know, roadmap of like what the perfect thing is going to look like because we're talking about human beings.

yeah

And it's a messy environment always that people have to learn to navigate. And I think there is a difference between being competent and whatever your craft is and whatever your job is. And then also, you know, understanding human nature and forming relationships and, you know, understanding even who you are as a human being and how best to show up and impact people's lives. And I think early on I realized, you know, confidence is a buildable skill. And I think that's really important for people, you know, leaders to understand is, you and you know, you have to work on your confidence. ah You have to build that through, you know, self-awareness and through clarity and

yeah

seeking it out. And instead, what I find with a lot of leaders I coach is they think everybody else was just like born with the confidence or they're born to be leaders or they've got it all figured out.

yeah

But I've coached all sorts of people in all sorts of size companies and worked with all sorts of size companies. And I realized like on the outside, people can look and act successful, but everybody's struggling with something internally.

Sure. Along those lines, you know What are some of the common struggles that you see with leaders in leadership teams um that you're you know that you're either sort of like, oh, there it is again, or you're surprised by?

um i'm I don't think I'm surprised anymore by anything. I think at this point, I feel like, you know, we're, you know, I spent 20 years in corporate America, over 10 years with Navigate the Journey, and I'm It has been such a ride going into different teams and and seeing all the different personalities and realizing that everybody is sort of struggling with the same things.

Yeah.

Teams are struggling with the same things. Leaders are struggling with the same things. But it's the people that are most open and honest and are operating by a set of core values. that Those are the teams that are really excelling. The ones that are like, we're going to figure this out. We're going vision. We're going to have a plan. where and And we're going to make sure that everybody on the team has a voice. And we're going to all row in the same direction.

yeah

And that takes a lot of work, but there's an intentionality to it. And there's a decision that has been made as a team as this is the way we're going to be. And if we need to seek outside help for that, or we need to read a book together or we need to challenge each other. The teams that are really focused on being not just profitable, but also healthy are the teams that, you know, i want to place a bet on.

Yeah. Um, I mean, that, that makes sense. And, you know, just the, the name of your company, navigate the journey, you know, it's, it's, uh, it's interesting. I mean, I've navigated some twists and turns as have you.

Mm-hmm.

um and they're, they're, do there do come, you know, points where you don't, you don't have the map. Um, you don't know which way to go and you, you do need that outside perspective.

Night.

And that's when I've found working with you is so valuable and why I think the outside perspective and input and guidance is, is so critical. Um, when you're working with a team, Are there things that you look for or that are signals to you that there there may be a ah problem in that in that unified journey process?

For me, it's how people are communicating or not communicating.

Communication. Mm-hmm.

you know So are we really getting to the last 10% of truth? Are we really being honest with each other are we just pacifying so we can get through the day?

yeah

you know are we our If our meetings are boring, why? you know Is it because we're not challenging each other? um you know Are we on the other end of the spectrum? too aggressive, too opinionated, too many strong personalities. um And we're not really giving each other the space to think, create, innovate.

Yeah.

So it i really look for the way that that people are communicating and how they're relating to each other. I mean, we all have different personalities and you know we all have emotions. Some of us show them, some of us don't. Um, and like I said before, some of us operate on great set of core values and some of us don't, you know, there's good people. I think there's more good people out there, you know, trying to, to do good things, but sometimes we get ah either a bad egg that we have to navigate or we just get people that don't fit.

That's the next book you should write, Navigating the Bad Eggs.

And yeah. yeah Exactly. Exactly. And it's like one of the things I've realized, you know, in the last few years is that um but none of us are immune. You know, like we you we can try to prepare, but business is messy and it is personal.

No.

And especially if you're a business owner and you're going to get hurt and business is going to break your heart. And I don't think that we talk about that enough, that yeah it's gonna it's going to hurt and it's going to take time for it.

Yeah.

I mean, we spend the majority of our hours, you know, either with our team or working or, you know, working with clients. And so things are going to happen. It's going to be really hard. And our character shows up at those crossroads.

yeah Oh, it does. um you You know, I think there's two two things i've been that have been on my mind a lot. You know I've just been, when I talk to other business owners or people, you know, in leadership positions, there's a lot of burnout right now. um Coming through COVID, dealing with the disruption in the political world and, you know, just sort of the state of our country and then, you know, technology and AI and there's so much disruption and speed feels like it's increasing and,

Mm-hmm. Hmm.

And I'm just seeing it everywhere. You know, everyone is, is like, I'm burned out. I need to slow down, but I can't. And I'm panicked. And what about tomorrow? And are you seeing that? And if so, what, you know, how are you those people? I don't know.

Yeah. Seeing it, feeling it myself, you know, I mean, we're all in the same um world right now and you know, burnout, it comes from pressure. You know, you really, it's not about so much the hours you're working or anything like that, because you can, you can be passionate. and I'm sure like all the beautiful paintings you could paint for hours and not feel burned out.

Correct.

And i think that with work, it's and It's not the hours or the effort we're putting in, it's the pressure that we're putting on ourselves and the pressure that we feel. And so it's really figuring okay, what's the reality? What's the reality of the situation?

i

What is it that we really need? what ah you know Which direction are we headed in? And how do we close the gap between where we are and where we wanna be? And I think that reality testing, it's really hard right now because we're all trying to filter through what's truth, what's not truth.

have

You know, what are we supposed to care about? What are we not supposed to care about? Are we helpless? Are we, you know, and so every road ahead that we all look at, i I always say there's just two ways we can go. We can go the way of fear. We could go the way of hope.

yeah

And, and hope is a tricky word because sometimes people think like, oh, that's so head in the clouds. And that's, that means that I'm not taking what's happening seriously. And, and I think, no, it's really the counterbalance to fear. You know, it's really there, every fear sells, we're seeing that. And, you know, fear keeps you stuck at best. And at worst, it takes you backwards.

Yeah.

And so, and it also fear masquerades as logic. So we start to think things like, you know, we we have these fears and, oh, you know, that's, of course, this is where I should stay, where it's safe and and all of this because, you know, our brain is logically processing through that fear and its fear is always rooted in disbelief about something, you know? So how do we pivot that? Because hope is what's going to propel us. Hope is what's going to innovate. But hope is where vision lies. And so the simple example of AI, is a good one. You know, it's, it's scary, because it's unknown. And so we have a choice, either we can fear it, or we can figure it out. And we know that change is going to happen and not all the change is going to be easy. And there are going to be shifts in the landscape.

Yeah.

But we also know that this has happened before, you know, so I'm old enough to remember life before the internet.

yeah

And I worked in the business world before the internet, before having a laptop. And, you know, the jobs that I did as yeah a grunt and entry entry level job, you know, like ripping contracts that I had to go to the printer room to get out and filing, you know, like how much time do we spend filing? And so the grunt, yeah, using whiteout, like hours on this.

Oh, using whiteout.

and And then technology happened and people are like, oh, we're going to have to get rid of so many jobs. But no, it's just that the jobs shifted. So I wasn't ripping contracts and filing and using whiteout. I was now on a computer. And I think the same thing is going to happen with AI where jobs are going to shift. the The skills and the tasks are going to just change. And so the people that can get ahead of it are the ones that are going to come across more hopeful, more innovative, more creative. And the people that push back and are nervous ah are the ones that are going to get stuck or, you know, feel like things are going backwards. And we need leaders that that can balance reality, that understand the reality of the situation, and they can affirm people where they are and and tell them, I know that you're what you're feeling is real, but what are we going to do to pivot and push forward?

yeah Yeah. Yeah. It's such a, i mean, I think it's such an exciting time. It does remind me of the beginning of the web and, you know, getting, just hearing about Photoshop for the first time.

yeah

Um, and just being like, you can do what, uh, And just the the whole reason I got propelled into it was because suddenly I felt like I was able to unlock things that had previously been really big barriers to what I could do in terms of, you know, creating websites that where anyone could see my art anywhere in the world versus the old school way of, you know, taking slides and putting them in slide carousels and sending them to try to get a, you know, a residency or something, you know, an exhibition.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. yeah

Um, So it was like that ability to connect with more people was suddenly unlocked. And then the ability to create in mediums that I that i previously had been restricted to, like even in the user interfaces and that the software that enabled me to do it without knowing how to write code. And um I feel like it's that's a repeat today with AI um because it just,

Uh-huh.

it makes me think of there's so many different ways to try to solve problems now.

Uh-huh.

Um, and so many creative ways to start thinking about it.

Uh-huh.

And it's, it's so em empowering to have all of these like, well, what ifs in front of you?

Yeah.

Um, but I do know that's scary and, you know, it will be a huge change and we don't know what that's going to look like, but I think, you know,

honey yeah

It's ah what I was talking to someone the other day and I said, well, what if, what if professional sports um said we've, we've identified a performance enhancing drug that's completely safe and we're going to, it's legal. All athletes are now allowed to take this very significant performance enhancing drug. And you know that you're now going to get, you're you're not, you're gonna you're not going to make the team. You're not going to win the race. If you're not taking this drug, or taking advantage of this thing that is now accepted as, you know, it's just like, don't know, there's something there where it's, so it's such a, it's such a game changer, um, in terms of what it can empower us to do around problem solving, around creativity, um, around so many things that I just think, um,

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. and

Yeah, I think if we dig our if people are digging their heels in and are afraid of it completely, I think that's going to be a problem. um But is it going to be messy and is there going to be a ton of crap for a long time? Yeah, you know, there is. um That happened when the internet happened. There were a million horrible websites.

Exactly.

I mean, that's how I built a business. Yeah. There still are millions of horrible ones.

yeah

But, um you know, it's like it's not going to just solve all these problems. There's still going to be a lot of problems to solve, I think.

Yeah, there will be. And I think it's going to take smart leaders, courageous leaders to to step up and figure out how how is it best to navigate this? How can I take a breath, rise above the weeds and figure out you know what's best for me, what's best for the team? you know how can room get in a room and innovate in a way that points us in the right direction for the future. And I think, you know, not getting burnt out in the weeds is going to be the key rising above, you know?

yeah Yeah, I think um burnout because of, I think AI burnout is going to be a thing in particular because there is so much potential.

Mm-hmm.

There is like, you know you know, you can do so much so quickly on all these different platforms and they keep changing. And I'm like making a spreadsheet to manage my subscription so that I don't, like, wait a minute, did I pay for that one?

I know.

Am I using it?

i know. And it's like everybody is inundated. And i I have so many clients that are like, do you think I have ADHD? I think I have ADHD. And I was like, okay, everybody thinks they have ADHD. And it's because we have so much coming at us.

Yeah.

It's insane.

Yeah.

It's unprecedented. we in ah In the human history, we've never had this much coming at us.

Yeah.

So how do we navigate it?

No, and we have not, yeah, we have not had time to evolve to meet the time.

Yeah. No.

Right.

No.

I mean, if you think about how evolution has worked and then how much has happened in, you know, the the The little tiny slice of human evolution that we're experiencing right now, it is insane.

Yes.

um What do you recommend to people who are feeling that overload? I mean, is it like take a take a vacation in the woods and you know don't look at your phone? like what what How do you navigate this particular scenario?

I... Yeah, I think that's in the simplest terms, yes, you have to disconnect. Because, and and I am so guilty of this, that you know I'll have a million tabs open, a million screens, a million different things, and then all my emails, all the things, right?

I'm sorry. OK.

And then something starts to glitch. And I actually get mad at my computer. Like, why is my Zoom not working? Why is it like a glitching? Oh, it's because you have 800 things open and not even the poor computer can function. So why do I think I can? And I have to metaphorically close all my tabs. and completely shut down so I'm not glitching, as my teenagers will say. you know And i think that we just don't think in and those simple terms.

no

We're over-indexing even on how we think we should find rest.

Mm-hmm.

And I think that we have to think about all areas of rest. We have to think about physical rest where we do shut down, but we have to think about mental rest, spiritual rest. And we also have to think about what is actually driving us because we it doesn't matter how many vacations you take, you will not feel rested unless you reset the why behind everything you're doing. And when you have a healthy why, i'm like what I like to call a healthy ambition for what you're around, what you're doing, then you can find real rest. But if you are trying to keep up with the Joneses, you're constantly comparing, you're constantly competing, you're constantly living in fear, you're constantly like unable to disconnect, then you're never going to feel rested. It doesn't matter if you fly to Bali for two weeks and come back. it's You're not going to find it until you go deep.

Okay, let's go deep on that if you don't mind. um

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

So finding your why, right?

Mm-hmm.

So if you are a, you know, a high performing um business executive, ah business owner on a leadership team, you have a lot of responsibility, you've got, you know, you've got your, all your KPIs or whatever the heck you're trying to hit or your revenue goals. You've got people's salaries you're responsible for. You've got kids you're trying to make sure can you know go to college. You've got maybe aging parents.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

You've got a lot of pressure, um especially for people in this like kind of sandwich place that a lot of us find ourselves in.

Mm-hmm.

um Why do you need to have a why for just like how you're trying to you know keep the boat afloat and support, um, you know, paying the bills, paying the team, keeping the clients happy. How do you go past that with clients?

yeah I think that what drives you will define you.

Mm-hmm.

So if you don't figure out what's driving you, if you don't figure out what your why is, somebody else is going to define it for you.

Mm-hmm.

If you don't design your life, somebody else is going to design it for you. So I say take back the reins and really figure out, okay, what is it that I want? Separate and distinct of my business, if I'm a business owner, I know that I want my business to sustain me. I know that I want it to help people. but But what is it that I want for my life? And who am I? How am I uniquely gifted? You are your name Tracy, I'm named Tracy. You're uniquely created, gifted, and talented and different than me. you know so you're going to lead differently. You're going to look through a different lens. Your life experience, the way that you see the world is different than mine. So we're going we can both be great leaders, but we're going to do it in different ways.

Mm-hmm.

And we'll be the best versions of ourselves when we understand who we are. And so I think for leaders, it's really, what is your identity? Who are you? What's it like to be inside your head? and And can you figure out and navigate that well so that you can be the best version of yourself? And then what's it like to be on the other side of you? you You know, so so what is it what are your relationships like? How are people receiving you? What does it feel like to be on the other side of Tracy? And then lastly, what are your results? What are your capabilities? Can you deliver on what you say? Are you somebody who can affect the bottom line, who is gonna show up, who is going to use their their talents for good? And so when I'm kind of working with leaders, I'm looking through that framework of like, let's understand what's unique about you and make sure you're putting that forward in a positive way. Because then you're going to have a balanced humility about yourself. You're not going to be driven because you want glory and recognition, but you're also not going to be driven because you want to be liked by everybody. You're going to be driven by the right things so that you can make an impact.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

You know, you talked about fear and we've talked about sort of the level of of craziness that we're all living through, but but fear and how that shows up. I mean, I think a lot of people are driven by fear um or or survival. You know, i mean, anyone who's had to, most people who've had to go through life have had hard things happen, whether it was when they were really little or more recently, but um there, you know that can That can eat away at your ability to trust in others and to trust in yourself and to kind of always be in – what was that one book where um she talked about always being in the critter state? You're always you know like waiting for the next shoe to drop and you're kind of in that survival mode.

yeah

Do you see that much as ah as a particular problem and is there anything that you would say is like a first step to moving around that or getting through that?

Yeah, I think it's naming what your fears are and and realizing, and I've had to do this work myself, like just wrestling through like, you know, hardships or crossroads of understanding that what I give energy to is going to grow. So if I give energy to a certain fear or to a certain person or to a certain event or to a certain you know um feeling, it's gonna grow. If I give energy to something good, it's also going to grow.

yeah

So I have to you know hit pause and say, okay, what is it that is driving me to do the thing I'm doing? You know, why do I feel like I have to do this or make this phone call or write this thing or have this conversation or take this meeting? Why am i is it for a good purpose or am I feeding a fear?

Yeah. Yeah. That's a fear is like a vampire, right? It definitely, it it feeds off of us and you know, anyone who's dealt with a betrayal of trust, you know, which we've we've experienced that.

Mm-hmm.

And lot of people have, and you're just sort of rocked by certain things.

Yeah.

um Your identity, you know, you can, change careers and how does your identity deal with that? And so there's so many scary things that can and really build up a lot of fear.

man

um I love that, that, you know, what you give energy to grows.

Yeah.

um I used to say, I used to think, I think I wrote an article called like good things grow, but now I think it's grow good things, you know, and that's like, what are you tending to?

Yeah. yeah

um and being mindful of that, is, it can have such a compounding effect.

Oh, yeah.

Um, I,

And I think you and I have both experienced that trust is risky.

yeah.

Like when you put your trust in another person, a leader, coworker, relationship, whatever it is, it's risky. You're taking a risk. and when that trust is broken and you're, you know, if you're betrayed or, you know, there's a lack of integrity on that person's side and yeah it's, it hurts. It's, it's betrayal is, is so hard to get over and, and it invites all sorts of fear and all sorts of vulnerability.

Yeah.

and the most damaging thing it can do is keep you from trusting again.

Yeah.

But when we don't trust as leaders, we just become managers. You know, we're just pushing the things around and we're keeping everything at a distance. And that is really dangerous. So it's, you know, it's kind of like you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. But and so that's where it's like, OK, am I going to push through the fear and trust again?

ah

am I going to push through the fear and heal and and decide to give energy to the right things and be able to kind of let go of you know, what happened in the past? It's hard.

It is. it is. This is zana it's not a this is not a ah ride for the faint of heart.

No.

um I do often just stop and say, i didn't realize how much bravery was going to be required to kind of get, get through this all, but it is, you know, you just have to, um, you have to decide how you're going to show up when those hard things happen.

Yeah.

And also i think, yeah, be, be conscious of, of what yeah what, how you're allowing yourself to evolve, um, based on the hard things that happen.

Yeah.

We don't usually, You know, I can't say like, this great thing happened and I totally changed because of it.

yeah

Um, it's usually like this horrible thing happened and I totally changed because of it. And I've always been very purposeful in, in how I move through hard situations because I know they're great opportunities for growth.

know yeah

You know, it's like, it's, it might smell like shit, but it's just a fertilizer.

Yeah, and it's it's fertilizer for our character, you know?

yeah

So it's like our life between birth and death is just a bunch of choices that we make.

i know

And all of those choices add up to our character and who we are. And I think when when I am at a difficult crossroads or i feel like, you know, trust has been ah betrayed, I have to choose the high road. I have to choose my character. I have to choose, you know, pushing through and trusting that all the choices I've made up to this point are going to get me through this. And, you know, when I'm coaching leaders, I always say, you know, it takes a lifetime to build your reputation and about a moment to lose it.

Yeah.

And so when you hit these crossroads, you gotta stop and you gotta think, what what is the choice that I'm going to make? And is it going to be fertilizer for my character or am I going to give into the fear and try to like self protect at all costs, you know, and it's hard.

Yeah. Yeah.

You need trusted people around you. You need to, to, you know, be able to, um, hit pause and give yourself that space. And, and that's hard because we feel like we're being chased by the lion. Right.

yeah

And so, you know, we're going to fight flight or freeze and, Do we have the coping skills? Do we have, you know, the emotional intelligence to be able to navigate it and navigate the best that we can?

Yeah. And I think that's where, um, it makes rest really hard.

Mm hmm.

Um, Because if you do feel, and I think a lot of people do, like you know they are they are running hard because they got to keep up. And they're trying to game plan every, you know what's this going to happen in this market? what what's you know What's next year look like? um what's you know How is this person performing? how what's going to happen with this client? like There are so many what ifs.

and her

And There literally is no way to, like i I stop myself all the time now and just say, this is just your mind. Your ah your your mind is just running. These thoughts are actually not real.

Yeah.

They are like there your primitive brain just creating noise and and it's all coming from um threats that aren't real.

Yeah.

And it's very hard to quiet it down.

Yeah. Well, nobody's going to talk to you more than you.

yeah

You are your best friend.

and the stress

You're the number one voice in your head. And so the only person who can change the script inside your head is you. And I think when we realize that and we can say, you know, sometimes this will happen to me even like when I'm getting ready in the morning and I'm like, you know, brushing my teeth and I can i i can feel the the wheels turning. n And I'll think to myself, okay, I've got two choices here. Like I can turn on a podcast to drown it out. Right. which is always an option. um Or I can, you know, stop and take a breath here and actually kind of like put pen to paper. Like what, what is it that I'm thinking? Why am I thinking about this? What about this event, this person, this thing, this and, and catastrophizing or whatever it is that I'm doing and how can I solve for it?

Yeah.

You know, is this something that I have to take action against? Is it something I can control? is it something I can't control and I need to just put it in its proper place and move forward? Again, what am I giving energy to? And if i if I can solve for it, I need to solve for it. I need to be, you know, put on my big girl pants and solve for it.

Yeah.

And if I can't, I need to learn how to navigate it. have to, I had the only way, you know, is to push through.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. um So many questions. um How, you know, how have you seen, how has there been something that has surprised you that ah a leader or a team was able to do in in the way they went about it? is Is there anything that you're like, oh my gosh, that I would have never seen that coming?

You mean in a good way?

um Yeah, well, if you, yeah, just say positive if you've got a good one.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

no If all you've got is bad ones, then that's

yeah now No, no. I have lots of good ones. I think um i think one of the the great things about the work we do is that we get to come in as facilitators and connect the dots. And so when we're with a team, We can see how the team is operating and we can see and we can just kind of maybe toss out the right question, a question that they might not ask if we weren't there or if they just had each other. We can notice who's speaking less. We can, we you know, we're there to sort of read the room and redirect. And we're also there to make sure that last 10 percent of truth gets out on the table.

Yeah. yeah

And so when we get teams to that right place and they're they're able to to have the right questions asked and to hear each other in the right way, it is so rewarding rewarding. and so fun. Like just, you know, the breakthrough, the finding, you know, the blue ocean, getting them to the place where they're being innovative and creative and, and having healthy discourse. Like there's nothing like getting through a session and being like, that was some good arguing. Like you just love it, you know, where they're like, they're debating and they're, they, but they're, they're so happy with each other.

Yeah. Yeah.

They want to just like celebrate because they're They have debated and they have pushed each other and they have argued in a way that their relationships are still intact, but they have had breakthrough. And that is not easy. But man, when you get there and you feel it, that's when the company is going to propel itself.

Yeah, I think there's just a lot of, um I think there are a lot of people that are are so busy and so overwhelmed that even carving out the time to focus on these types of things can seem like, you know, I'm too busy.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, you're too busy because you're not doing it.

yeah

You know, your way it's like, you know, people will spend more time planning vacation than they will planning for their company or planning for their life, you know, and it's like it, you know, it, you, if you are so overwhelmed and you are so in the weeds and your team is that, that just screams that you need to

if

to go through a process where you can really get a ah plan on paper, really figure out what you're supposed to be focused on. You know, because you, if you aren't creating that flywheel, if you don't know just those few things that you need to be focused on to move the ball down the field, then everything's going to be a priority, which of course means that nothing is. And, you know, everybody's scattered to the wind instead of feeling focused and energized.

yeah

And the whole goal is to work smarter, not harder.

right

And too often we just think, oh if we just grind it out, we'll get there. If I just, you know, and it's it's really getting clear is going to to give you the you know, the win that you really need for your company and for your team to feel comfortable.

Yeah. you I was talking to ah some some friends of mine that started their own studio that I worked with them at my last agency. and you know And I was so proud of them for making that leap and the bravery that's required to do that. And one of the badges of honor is the amount of things that they've said no to.

Yeah.

um And you know I remember talking with them about that and and just um encouraging that to be you know not to come from a ah scarcity mindset.

Yeah.

right And I think there are some people who've been raised in a scarcity mindset and it's really hard to undo that and kind of come from that abundance mindset.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

And i think that puts people into more of that place of fear, that place of being reactionary instead of creative and proactive and um forward looking instead of forward fearing.

and

ah do you, you see that crop up as a,

Yeah, I do. And I i also think that sometimes it's if it's not fear, It can be a visionary founder issue too, where you know you're chasing the squirrel, you have another idea, you know you you decide something and you're like, okay, the team decides it, they go after it, there everybody's feeling focused.

Yeah. yeah yeah

And then all of a sudden, you know that super visionary founder, it comes in and is like, what are we doing? No, I have a new idea, you know, and everybody's like, oh gosh, a new, you know, so, and then the team pivots. And so sometimes, you know, these things happen just because we're working with like hyperly, hyper creative people and they want to keep creating and they feel like, you know, this is what, one of the most amazing things too, about doing like assessments with teams and figuring out like even the working genius, like

Yeah.

you know, who's on one end of the like visionary spectrum and who wants to sort of like grind it out on the, ah you know, like and wants to do the detailed work and how those groups of people interact with each other.

yeah

And when the when the people that are like pushing to get the ball over the the final, you know, into the end zone, you know, then the visionary people are the ones who can mess that all up, you know? and so like, it's, do we have the patience to see things through?

yeah

You know, and are we able to live in that space of just working on those few things to get us where, like to your point of, you know, what can we say no to?

huh

and And what are the things we're going to focus on? And are we willing and daring and courageous enough to stick to that?

Yeah.

To do?

um Have you read 4,000 weeks?

No. No.

ah ah Great book. It's maybe traumatized me a little bit though. um So 4,000 weeks is the average human lifespan.

and Oh, right. Oh, gosh.

um And the book basically says, you know, you only have so much time. So be, have, prioritize, like be ruthlessly um focused in how and what you spend your time on because like don't have a list of 10 things, have a list of three um because otherwise you won't, you know.

Yeah. Yes. And I'm going to. Yeah, I I think one thing I would I'd say yes. And to that is

yeah

We are currently experiencing like hustle culture and that's what we've been experiencing.

Yeah.

And a lot of that came from, and you know, you can remember this sort of that like carpe diem, you know, seize the day.

Yeah.

You only live once, you know, all of this.

Yeah, work hard, play hard. Yeah.

Work hard, you know, and um and, you know, you might only have 4,000 weeks and and all of that.

Yeah.

And it's valid, but what it's created is this sense of, I think instead of a sense of clarity and simplicity, it's given us this panic.

Yeah.

And it's really hard to live with purpose when you're panicked. And so I like people to shift.

And also... and all Yeah. and and And you mentioned earlier how important hope is, right? and

of

And well I think the book is actually hopeful when you get into it. um

Right.

And he you know his follow-up was all about meditation because I think he was probably like, I freaked out a lot of people.

Yeah. Yeah.

I need to calm them all down now. But i I what's wrong with still having hope that maybe you're going to do something one day versus saying, i need to just stop having hope for that because it's distracting me and keeping me from being present in the like three or four things.

one

Like is hope a distraction? i don't know. You know?

Well, I think it's kind of like saying is vision a distraction. No, it's not.

Yeah. Yeah.

It's a destination, right?

Yeah.

So we can still enjoy the car ride, but but it's much more fulfilling if we know where we're going. And we, you know, so so enjoy the ride to get there, but know where you're going because otherwise all roads lead to, you know, it's like the Alice in the Wonderland, right? so So I think that we... naming the destination, figuring out how you're going to get there, and then enjoying the ride. It sounds so simplistic, and I know it's difficult, but if you could figure that out, that's the home run, right? So I think, you know, kind of flipping the whole, you know, we could die any day sort of thing, I like like to think about, you know, look at some of the the people, you know, we're living longer, we're living healthier longer. This is going to be a lot due to AI and and medical technology. we they they Actuaries say that the baby that, you know, is going to live to be 200 may have already been born. So so therere there's a possibility that we have a lot of life, hopefully, left ahead of us. And then we see people that are still working, still leaning in, and um and they're a lot older than us. And and what does that mean for for you and i you know it Maybe it means another career, another option. you know And and i think I think about Peter Drucker, who wrote the majority of his books after the age of 65. So yeah. you know so

Yeah.

So maybe there's other books and there's lots more paintings and there's, you know, there's other adventures ahead of us.

Yeah.

And that shouldn't distract us from the good work we're doing today. But, you know, your question was about hope. And I think that when we see the road ahead of us as long instead of short, and we are able to rest and In the life journey, we're able to say road is long.

Right.

I have time. I'm going to stop and smell the roses. I'm going to call a friend.

yeah

I'm going to make a connection. I'm going to have a relationship. And I can still, you know, achieve a few things along the way. And I think we have to remember that success isn't a list that we check off. Success is a feeling. It is a feeling. And if you feel successful, you've decided what success means to you and you feel successful, you're successful.

yeah

And I have to decide the same for myself. What is enough? What is it that I really want and need? What does success mean to me? And then when I feel it, it's enough. I can rest.

Yeah. Yeah. And being in a constant state of fear and distraction and anxiety, it does, it keeps a lot of people from ever even getting a glimpse at it.

Yeah.

I think, but at least for me, success has a lot to do with my control over how I spend my time and what I allow myself to um explore and think about and the connections I have with other people.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

you know, family, friends, coworkers, colleagues. And there's there's not enough time to to, you know, you do have to be, I think, kind of selective in how you use your time.

and

But ah being able to carve out the time for those things and knowing those things mean a lot to me and define success for me.

yeah

It's great. That's the flywheel, right? Where it's like, I'm excited to get up every day because I know that I'm going to be doing things that, that make me feel good and are my part of my core values and, and having aligned them with, with work, um, and the work that I do is great.

yeah

I mean, not everybody is in a position to, to say that.

yeah

And when you're, um, meeting with, with clients and teams, how often is it that there are, there are some wrong people in the mix? I mean, leadership teams don't just, there's no like formula where we all just show up and we've all been perfectly organized to be a great team. It's usually like, you know, it could be like the intern that just stuck around forever. Suddenly, you know, they kind of form organically and

yeah

and in messy ways, especially in small companies. And all of a sudden you're sitting at a table trying to make big decisions with people that you aren't necessarily there for the exact specific reasons that they should be there for.

Yeah. And those are hard conversations. You know, and we've had to have that that conversation with leaders where we say, you know, you know, Bob's not the best person. fit as you know as far as what we're we're seeing and hearing and observing.

Yeah.

has that ever been you know Has that ever been brought up to you?

Bob's Yeah.

yeah, yeah, we know, we know, we know. and And again, it's like you're going to have a hard time keeping those A players if you have the one bad seed. And so sometimes I think leaders just want permission. They want someone like a consultant like us to come in and and give them permission.

yeah

n And i I admire the people that feel, that wrestle with it, you know, because I know it's because they have empathy and they just, you know, it's hard for them. But good leaders make the hard decisions. I mean, good leaders aren't afraid of confrontation. Good leaders aren't afraid of solving the problem.

um,

And bad leaders tend to kick the can down the road and everybody is watching. It's just like, you know, they say kids are always watching their parents. Kids are always watching their parents. You know, our team is always watching us. They're watching. They're seeing how we're reacting. Are we doing it? Are we not doing it? Do we know? Do we not know? If not, why not? If we do know, why aren't we doing anything about it? They're always watching. And so that is the burden of leadership. And either you're going to carry the burden well or you're not. And so there there are places for people. We have to hold our staff with an open palm and realize, you know, sometimes they're a fit and it's great and sometimes they're not. And sometimes there are seasons they're a fit and sometimes there are seasons they're not. And i I saw this at HGTV.

Yeah.

I mean, I was there for almost 20 years and and I saw from zero revenue dollars to a billion. So you see every single level of the company. And there were these phases and these crossroads that we hit where you saw exits, you know, lots of people left or people had to get laid off. are let go because they just didn't fit that version of the company anymore. And I think that's what we have to be looking out for as leaders.

Yeah. And as people, right?

people.

um

Mm-hmm.

Our relationships change as we change. And it is ah it's a silly myth, I think, that you know you kind of like are going to grow and evolve in this exact same ways as a group of people, or there is some kind of way to control that.

Mm-hmm.

um I also think that you're sometimes freeing people to to pursue a much more rewarding

Completely.

path of their own versus keeping them there because they might feel obligated. So it's, I love following the journeys of people that have, have been through, you know, working with me and then have gone on to do other things. And, you know, it's just like, this is a, this is a stepping stone on the journey. I don't expect you to like move into the house and like never leave.

Yeah. Right. And that's why I think it's like always having those open lines of communication and for people to be brave to have these conversations. You know, it's like the worst are people that exit poorly. You know, they're like, you know, they're just doing stuff they shouldn't.

Yeah.

And they're yeah i mean, it's like, why You know, like, they you know, I have helped launch so many different careers because I want people to be successful and happy.

yeah

it doesn't mean that they have to do it on my team or at my company, you know. um be be To your point, there is a place for everyone to shine, hopefully. that It's their journey to find that place. And I don't want to hold anyone back from that. So I think, you know, that's part of holding your staff with an open palm. I mean, i I remember having somebody on my staff at HGTV and I could just tell he was struggling. and I finally just said, what's what's happening? What's going on in your head? Like, I don't want you to be scared to talk to me about this. And he was like, i I just want to be a teacher. like And it was not at all what I was expecting to hear. But we arranged it so that, you know, he could work, you know, a little while longer and and and then pursue his degree. And and then he went off and and now he's a teacher. And it's like, all it took was me as a leader asking, I can, I see there's a struggle. How can I help you?

yeah

and And to be completely okay that it's not longevity with my team. It's going to be somewhere else. Let's let let make it happen. That's part of the gift of leadership is to help people, even if it's not on your team, helping them realize their full potential, whatever that full potential might be.

yeah What, um, what do you like in your, in your mind's eye, you know, you're on top of the building, you're screaming with a megaphone. It's the, it's the thing you just keep saying or thinking, and maybe nobody's asking for it to hear it, or they don't hear it when you say it. Is there kind of a mantra that, that you want to make sure you share on this podcast, at least, um, that needs to be heard more?

Well, I think you know the subtitle of my book, What If There's More, is Finding Significance Beyond Success. And I feel like if though if everybody in the world could just figure out who they are and what this positive, significant impact that they could make in other people's lives, we would be in a better state. I think too many people are chasing money, power, image, fame now, you know, my my daughters are constantly telling me, you know, it's all but the likes, the follows, the platform, you know, like, and and that is a real struggle for their generation. And even ours is like, how many people are clicking on this or reading this or liking this? And can we let go of that pressure?

Right.

And understand and make sure that we're not being driven by you know, accumulating wealth or followers or fame or power. Because when we go down that path, it's the slippery slope that's leading us to where we are in this world today of division. because we're chasing after things that can never be fulfilled. There will always be somebody wealthier, more famous, more powerful. You're never going to win. It's a no-win game. So play the game you can win. And the game you can win is know who you are and use those gifts and talents to have a positive impact on the world around you and pursue the best version of yourself.

Thank you.

be ambition and Be ambitious mission. for the right mission ah You have to decide that. You have to decide what that is and hold true to it.

Wow. this is a good If I had ah a mic, I would drop it for you. um And for anyone listening, I mean, this is why you should call Tracy and hire her um to work through these things. It's like you're a psychologist, coach, consultant, um expert, business person, all rolled up into one and an author. And I hope we have the chance to work together again in the, I mean, ah if I could talk to you every day, I would. um

Aw, me too. Thank

So thank you so much for joining us. And again,

you.

um If you haven't read Tracy's book, please check it out. I'll add show notes to helloadeo.com's link for Escape Velocity and make sure that everybody finds out how to get in touch with you and find you following this. But thank you again, as always.

Thank you. Thank you.