Kris Land: The Infinity Within

Welcome everyone, another episode of Escape Velocity. And today we are gonna explore something that most of us spend an enormous amount of time and energy trying to outrun, and that is the idea of fear. We are joined today by my guest, Kris Land. Kris is a very accomplished entrepreneur, business person, author, and he's written a number of books. today by my guest Kris Land. Kris is a very accomplished entrepreneur, business person, author, and he's written a number of books that have been very successful, very helpful. He's had what, over 11 companies that you've either exited or IPO'd or just a tremendous entrepreneurial success story from starting from a very young age. that have been very successful, very helpful. He's had what, over 11 companies that you've either exited or IPO'd or just a tremendous entrepreneurial success story starting from a very young age. And today we're gonna talk about his most recent book, which has been a lifetime, it sounds like, of wanting to write about these things. And he finally has the books called The Infinity Within. Today we're gonna talk about his most recent book, which has been a lifetime, it sounds like, of wanting to write about these things. And he finally has the books called The Infinity Within. And it's just great to have you here, Kris. I'm excited to dive into things and I'll let you, if you'd like to say anything about yourself before we get started, I'm just glad to have you. Thank you, Tracey. I very much appreciate you having me and can't wait to dig in. It's just great to have you here, Kris. I'm excited to dive into things and I'll let you, if you'd like to say anything about yourself before we get started, I'm just glad to have you.

Thank you, Tracey. I very much appreciate you having me and can't wait to dig in.

Well, I think that, you know, when you and I first started talking and I started learning more about you in the book and what really caught my attention was that, you know, throughout your life of success in business and in, you know, family and relationships and in writing, there's been this story or this idea that has kept pulling at you that you've wanted to share because Well, I think that when you and I first started talking and I started learning more about you in the book, and what really caught my attention was that throughout your life of success in business and in family and relationships and in writing, there's been this story or this idea that has kept pulling at you that you've wanted to share because you knew how much, transformative it had been, these experiences had been for you in your life. So I'd love to just talk about why does this idea of fear play such a pivotal role in our lives and how have your experiences inspired you to write this book, but more importantly, inspired you to see it differently? you knew how much, transformative it had been, these experiences had been for you in your life. So I'd love to just talk about why does this idea of fear play such a pivotal role in our lives and how have your experiences inspired you to write this book, but more importantly, inspired you to see it differently?

As you'd mentioned, I started doing computers and stuff when I was in my teens and...

As you'd mentioned, I started doing computers and stuff when I was in my teens and

was very fortunate to work with a gentleman that was really good in knowing accounting and I knew how to program and then we wrote the software and then we ended up selling it. And that was the kind of the starting point of taking things that had happened to me in the past and getting them into a story. What had happened when I sold the company is it put me into a deep depression.

was very fortunate to work with a gentleman that was really good in knowing accounting and I knew how to program and then we wrote the software and then we ended up selling it. And that was the kind of the starting point of taking things that had happened to me in the past and getting them into a story. What had happened when I sold the company is it put me into a deep depression.

Kind of like the story that you hear when people win the lottery and it destroys their lives. I found with that is it blew all my goals. I didn't know what I was going to do next or where I was going to go. prior to that, from a very young age, the first major event happened when I was six. I had

Kind of like the story that you hear when people win the lottery and it destroys their lives. Yeah. What with that is it blew all my goals. I didn't know what I was going to do next or where I was going to go. prior to that, from a very young age, the first major event happened when I was six. I had Yeah.

situation where I was getting ready to go to sleep and my reality shifted in such a way that everything became transparent. I could see kind of endlessly. I could hear almost everything. It felt almost ethereal and everything in my room, including this particular toy train that was in front of me, when I went to pick it up, had the texture of smoke or a piece of paper. mean, everything was weightless.

a situation where I was getting ready to go to sleep and my reality shifted in such a way that everything became transparent. I could see kind of endlessly. I could hear almost everything. It felt almost ethereal and everything in my room, including this particular toy train that was in front of me, when I went to pick it up, had the texture of smoke or a piece of paper. mean, everything was weightless. . Thanks.

And so I had a number of different things happen to me as a child. And then as I got older, that begged the question of what we're told is real versus what might not be. One of the things that fascinates me is, the stories, which are not uncommon of children being able to see ghosts or connected with things that aren't normally visible.

And so I had a number of different things happen to me as a child and then as I got older that begged the question of what we're told is real versus what might not be. One of the things that fascinates me is the stories which are not uncommon of children being able to see ghosts or connected with things that aren't you Mm hmm. Normally visible and then as they get older that stops and The question is why and I think what happens is that as children when we're brought into this world We don't have a lot of shields and we were not told what's not possible we're not given a bunch of don'ts can'ts and shouldn'ts and so we do them and then as we get older like

And then as they get older, that stops. And the question is why? And I think what happens is that as children, when we're brought into this world, we don't have a lot of shields and we're not told what's not possible. We're not given a bunch of don'ts, can'ts, and shouldn'ts. And so we do them. And then as we get older, like,

you Okay. Okay.

For instance, even with me, when I had this experience at six, my parents were very nice about it. But, you I got scared, went up, ran up to their bed and went to sleep and they just said, you know, it's all okay. And it was just a bad dream. So we're taught from a very young age that when we have things happen to us that don't fit the normal physical world, that it's our imagination or we dreamed it up.

For instance, even with me, when I had this experience at six, my parents were very nice about it. But you know, I got scared, went up, ran up to their bed and went to sleep and they just said, you know, it's all okay. And it was just a bad dream. So we're taught from a very young age that when we have things happen to us that don't fit the normal physical world, that it's our imagination or we dreamed it up. Yeah. So.

or it didn't really happen. And my argument, which starts heading towards the answer to your question, is that the things of that nature that happen, I think, are the more real. And everything else is designed to keep us small and or trapped and or unaware of what we're really capable of doing.

or it didn't really happen. And my argument, which starts heading towards the answer to your question, is that the things of that nature that happen, I think, are the more real, and everything else is designed to keep us small and or trapped and or unaware of what we're really capable of doing. Awesome.

and

and

I look at fear and doubt as two types of signposts that are like a heads up of, hey, something's going on here that's trying to get your attention. Now, you know, there's two types of fears, right? There's the old reptilian brain fear, which was built into us when we were cave people and was really kind of important because when a saber-toothed tiger was growling behind us,

I look at fear and doubt as two types of signposts that are like a heads up of, hey, something's going on here that's trying to get your attention. Now, you know, there's two types of fears, right? There's the old reptilian brain fear, which was built into us when we were cave people and was really kind of important because when a saber-toothed tiger was growling behind us, you Yeah.

needed to have that fear and we needed to get the heck out of that space. So those fears are pretty important and life-saving in many cases. Today's fears don't still exist, but a lot of them have to do with more feelings, emotions, and stopping us from doing something that we could do, but we fear that we can't.

needed to have that fear and we needed to get the heck out of that space. So those fears are pretty important and life-saving in many cases. Today's fears don't still exist, but a lot of them have to do with more feelings, emotions, and... stopping us from doing something that we could do, but we fear that we can't. That can be trained, taught, learned in many, many different ways. Mm-hmm.

that can be trained, taught, learned in many, many different ways. What I started looking at is fear. If you start becoming afraid of something, you can feel it in your chest or your stomach and you start getting to this point where you don't want to do something where it stops you from doing something. My first thing that I kind of discussed in different parts of the book is you start asking why. What is it there for? What are you really afraid of?

What I started looking at is fear. If you start becoming afraid of something, you can feel it in your chest or your stomach and you start getting to this point where you don't want to do something where it stops you from doing something. My first thing that I kind of discussed in different parts of the book is you start asking why. What is it there for? What are you really afraid of? you Mm-hmm.

And typically that moves into some form of doubt. Doubt in yourself, doubt that you can do this, doubt that it's possible, any number of different versions. And what I found is the doubt is the mortar for illusions, meaning illusions, keeping us from seeing what we are, what we really are underneath, what the...

And typically that moves into some form of doubt. Doubt in yourself, doubt that you can do this, doubt that it's possible, any number of different versions. And what I found is the doubt is the mortar for illusions, meaning illusions, keeping us from seeing what we are, what we really are underneath, what the... So it's interesting when you were just talking through that, you know, I know for myself and so many people that I've talked to that a lot of us

the infinity within really exists. And these doubts keep us from seeing what we're capable of doing.

the infinity within really exists. And these doubts keep us from seeing what we're capable of doing. So it's interesting when you were just talking through that, you know, I know for myself and so many people that I've talked to that a lot of us, we do this thing called like moving the goalposts where we think if we only can achieve a certain level of success or we do this thing called like moving the goalposts where we think if we only can achieve a certain level of success or whatever it might be, whatever the thing is and we're like, when I get there, then I will be free from the doubt and the fear. And you had success at a very young age and as you said, then it threw into depression was part of that because you kind of realized like, well, what now? I've got nothing to kind of no goalposts left like. whatever it might be, whatever the thing is. And we're like, when I get there, then I will be free from the doubt and the fear. And you had success at a very young age. And as you said, then it threw you into depression. Was part of that because you kind of realized like, well, what now? I've got nothing to kind of, no goalposts left. Like you jumped right to the finish line and now what? you jumped right to the finish line and now what?

Exactly right. And you know, at that age, I didn't have any long ranging goals or any long ranging things other than go be successful, go something successful. And that's kind of what we're taught. From that space, the very first thing I did once I realized where I was mentally is to come up with three goals that I would be able to always do.

Exactly right. And you know, at that age, I didn't have any long ranging goals or any long ranging things other than go be successful, go something successful. And that's kind of what we're taught. From that space, the very first thing I did once I realized where I was mentally is to come up with three goals that I would be able to always do. Mm-hmm.

and never accomplish. And so those three goals were have fun, learn, and do neither at the harm or impedance of others. And with those three, I was able to kind of start stepping out. And then now leading a little bit more into the book, I'll talk a little bit and then stop. Where that got me is I got hired by a bank to do work in the technology space and my

and never accomplish. And so those three goals were have fun, learn, and do neither at the harm or impedance of others. And with those three, I was able to kind of start stepping out. And then now leading a little bit more into the book, I'll talk a little bit and then stop. Where that got me is I got hired by a bank to do work in the technology space and my

direct supervisor, my boss, was a Trident Blue atheist. And so combined with where I was and kind of this thing I put together, it kind of, I don't have any problem with people wanting to believe anything they want to believe, but it kind of sat with me wrong. And his name coincidentally was Kris as well. And so I started looking at what does an atheist mean and what does it mean to believe that we're a piece of clay or a soul or a soul less.

direct supervisor, my boss, was a Trident Blue atheist. And so combined with where I was and kind of this thing I put together, it kind of, I don't have any problem with people wanting to believe anything they want to believe, but it kind of sat with me wrong. And his name coincidentally was Kris as well. And so I started looking at what does an atheist mean and what does it mean to believe that we're a piece of clay or a soul or soulless? Thanks.

And I came up with a set of questions, and there's not many of them, that kind of show that all of the benefit or win is in believing we have a soul and all of the non-benefit is in believing we don't. And so whether we do or don't, the benefit is all in believing we do. And so that's what got me down the path of

And I came up with a set of questions, and there's not many of them, that kind of show that all of the benefit or win is in believing we have a soul and all of the non-benefit is in believing we don't. And so whether we do or don't, the benefit is all in believing we do. And so that's what got me down the path of

were the genesis of writing the book, Infinity Within.

or the genesis of writing the book, The Infinity Within? Well, I think for better or worse, the concept of the soul has been hijacked by organized religion over the last couple thousand years. so I think it's a lot of people feel like they can't necessarily put language around it without Well, I think for better or worse, you know, the concept of the soul has been hijacked by organized religion over the last couple thousand years. And so I think it's a lot of people feel like they can't necessarily put language around it without believing in a certain doctrine or following a certain religion or wrapping it in something that's more organized and and believing in a certain doctrine or following a certain religion or wrapping it in something that's more organized and understandable. But I do think that we all have experiences throughout our life. And I think you're right, as children, we don't have the filters. don't have the, all the neuroplasticity hasn't formed in yet to say like, what you see is this and what you don't see is not of importance or real. understandable. But I do think that we all have experiences throughout our life. And I think you're right, as children, we don't have the filters, we don't have the all the neuroplasticity hasn't formed in yet to say like, what you see is this and what you don't see is not of importance or real, or what you think you see. But or what you think you see, but, or feel or sense. But I think we all have these experiences and don't quite know what to do with them if they don't fit into a very, you know, a miracle or something that can be understood by materialism and science in a controlled environment kind of thing. So I do think that it's refreshing to have conversations about the soul or about or feel or sense, but I think we all have these experiences and don't quite know what to do with them if they don't fit into a very, you know, a miracle or something that can be understood by materialism and science in a controlled environment kind of thing. So I do think that it's refreshing to have conversations about the soul or about our our purpose here on Earth, which I want to talk to you about that a little bit more too, without having it need to have the constructs of religion wrapped around it. you know, in terms of the success you had and when you realized that didn't insulate you from fear or doubt, what was it about leaning into those things? purpose here on Earth, which I wanna talk to you about that a little bit more too, without having it need to have the constructs of religion wrapped around it. in terms of the success you had and when you realized that didn't insulate you from fear or doubt, what was it about leaning into those things? or going through them that became, how did you kind of arrive at this notion of how you journey through those experiences? That's a long-winded answer. The answer to that question comes from the starting point of, okay, we have a soul, or we believe we have a soul, because... or going through them that became, how did you kind of arrive at this notion of how you journey through those experiences?

That's a log-winded answer. The answer to that question comes from the starting point of, okay, we have a soul, or we believe we have a soul, because... Ultimately, what we are and who we are is directly related to how we feel and what happens and what fear and doubt comes up for us. So when I started down the path of the soul, I...

Ultimately, what we are and who we are is directly related to how we feel and what happens and what fear and doubt comes up for us. So when I started down the path of the soul, I, uh,

What I found was many, well, all of the religions I've studied, all the way back down, all the way to the Egyptians, describe the soul as godlike. In the Bible it says, we are the children of God. Jesus in one of the, I forget the particular chapter and verse says to his disciples, you will do everything I have done and much more.

What I found was many, all of the religions I've studied, all the way back down, all the way to the Egyptians, describe the soul as Godlike. In the Bible it says, we are the children of God. Jesus in one of the, I forget the particular chapter in verse says to his disciples, you will do everything I have done and much more.

And I think that these types of lines, which are strewn through the Bible and pretty much all the different theologies that I've spent time reading is that,

And I think that these types of lines, which are strewn through the Bible and pretty much all the different theologies that I've spent time reading is that,

A soul is God-like, meaning it has the ability to create and destroy universes, mean, entire things. And so most of us don't feel very God-like when we're dealing with day-to-day activities and have this fear and this doubt going on all the time. And so the question is, well, what's going on? How does this work? And so I started really digging into,

A soul is godlike, meaning it has the ability to create and destroy universes, mean, things. And so most of us don't feel very godlike when we're dealing with day-to-day activities and have this fear and this doubt going on all the time. And so the question is, well, what's going on? How does this work? And so I started really digging into,

What does a soul, okay, let's assume for a minute it's godlike, what does a soul do outside of what I call the game of earth? And which means basically outside of time because the game of earth exists in four dimensions. The fourth dimension is time, which is what I call the primary motivator. And what I mean by that is in third dimensions and below time doesn't exist, so it doesn't pass.

What is a soul? Okay, let's assume for a minute it's Godlike. What does a soul do outside of what I call the game of earth? And which means basically outside of time because the game of earth exists in four dimensions. The fourth dimension is time, which is what I call the primary motivator. And what I mean by that is in third dimensions and below time doesn't exist. So it doesn't pass.

and in fifth dimensions and beyond, it's there, but it's less important. It's not the primary motivator anymore. So if we're in the game of Earth and it has time,

And in fifth dimensions and beyond, it's there, but it's less important. It's not the primary motivator anymore. So if we're in the game of Earth and it has time,

What would we as a soul have an interest in this for? And then I started saying, okay, well, I could only come up with three things that a God-like entity really at a very broad stroke would and could do. You can create things, you can destroy things. And the only other thing I really come up with that exists in and out of time is to play games, to create game constructs.

What would we as a soul have an interest in this for? And then I started saying, okay, well, I could only come up with three things that a God-like entity really at a very broad stroke would and could do. You can create things, you can destroy things. The only other thing I really come up with that exists in and out of time is to play games, to create game constructs. Thanks.

very much like if we talk about Monopoly. Why do we play a game of Monopoly? And the answer is, well, we get to interact with each other. We get to experience taking the turns, rolling the dice. And we agree to rules. There's certain rules that we agree to in order to play, because if there's no rules of Monopoly, there's no fun. And so if you take that

very much like if we talk about monopoly, why do we play a game of monopoly? And the answer is, well, we get to interact with each other. We get to experience taking the turns, rolling the dice. And we agree to rules. There's certain rules that we agree to in order to play it. Because if there's no rules of monopoly, there's no fun. And so if you take that

analogy and take it to the game of earth that would suggest that we enter here as souls with some rules.

analogy and take it to the game of earth that would suggest that we enter here as souls with some rules.

But the first question, well, why would we come here? And I could only come up with one thing that is unique to a fourth dimensional universe that a soul might be interested in. And that would be to experience emotion or just experience. So when I talk about emotion, we're talking about all of them, the good ones and all the bad ones. And...

But the first question, well, why would we come here? And I could only come up with one thing that is unique to a fourth dimensional universe that a soul might be interested in. And that would be to experience emotion or just experience. So when I talk about emotion, we're talking about all of them, the good ones and all the bad ones. And Thank you. No.

That works fine except for the very first time an emotion comes up that's uncomfortable and then we have all our soul-like abilities and we just say, no, that didn't happen. So that doesn't work for a game because that would be like Monopoly and you start winning. go, no, I'm going to take all the properties. Doesn't really work. Doesn't make the game any fun and it makes it a pretty short game. So what do the rules look like? Well, I sat down and spent some time thinking about

That works fine except for the very first time an emotion comes up that's uncomfortable and then we have all our soul-like abilities and we just say, no, that didn't happen. So that doesn't work for a game because that would be like Monopoly and you start winning. go, no, I'm going to take all the properties. Yeah. Doesn't really work. Doesn't make the game any fun and it makes it a pretty short game. So what are the rules look like? Well, I sat down and spent some time thinking about

What would the rules look like for the game of Earth? And we'll call them the pearly gates where we come in as a soul and we say, well, this is an interesting game. Maybe I'll go play. So the first rule would be that we take all of our soul abilities, all of our big abilities, and we agree to put them to the side. Put them up. Leave them up here. Don't take them in with us.

What would the rules look like for the game of Earth and we'll call them the pearly gates where we come in as a solo We say well, this is an interesting game. Maybe I'll go play so the first rule would be that we take all of our soul abilities all of our Big abilities and we agree to put them to the side put them up leave them up here. Don't take them in with us Now that's fine and dandy except that if we're still connected to them you just draw on them anytime you want

Now that's fine and dandy, except that if we're still connected to them, you just draw on them any time you want. So the second rule would be you forget that you ever had them.

So the second rule would be you forget that you ever had them.

But a soul is not going to get themselves stuck in this game for infinity. So the third thing is we're going to have turns. Those turns will be lifetimes. Which is why resurrection comes up in so many theologies across many, many different places. And so if each life is a turn, then the

Okay. But a soul is not going to get themselves stuck in this game for infinity. So the third thing is we're going to have turns. Those turns will be lifetimes, which is why resurrection comes up in such so many theologies across many, different places. And so if each life is a turn, then the So. Yeah.

question to be, great, what are we doing? Well, we're here to experience emotions, the good, the bad, the ugly, all of them. And then we've agreed to put our abilities aside and forget that we have them. And now how does a turn look? Well, just like any game, you're gonna have a certain number of turns before at some point you win and you leave, right? At some point,

Question B, okay, great, what are we doing? Well, we're here to experience emotions, the good, the bad, the ugly, all of them. And then we've agreed to put our abilities aside and forget that we had them. And now how does the turn look? Well, just like any game, you're gonna have a certain number of turns before at some point you win and you leave, right? The game ends. I'll all. Here's more. The game ends. At some point, you're not going to trap yourself in a fourth dimensional universe for infinity. So at some point, you're going to have a set of goals that you achieve and you leave the game with experiences as a soul you wanted to take out of it. However, then it gets starts to get interesting because again, in order to make the game challenging and really fun for a soul like being, that means it's going to be a pretty hard one.

You're not going to trap yourself in a fourth dimensional universe for infinity, so at some point you're going to have a set of goals that you achieve and you leave the game with your experiences as a soul you wanted to take out of it. However, then it gets starts to get interesting because again, in order to make the game challenging and really fun for a soul-like being, that means it's going to be a pretty hard one. It's not going to be simple.

It's not going to be simple. So every turn you have a set of goals and if you don't do them, you get to do it over. And if you do those, you go to the next turn and again, you do whatever you've set up at the beginning and you work through them. And if you don't, you do it over. And then you have this concept that's in the Bible, but it was created by not agnostics,

So every turn you have a set of goals and if you don't do them, you get to do it all over. And if you do those, you go to the next turn and again, you do whatever you've set up at the beginning and you work through them. And if you don't, you do it over. And then you have this concept that's in the Bible, but it was created by not agnostics. I always lose the name, but they're called the Archons.

Thank Yeah. name but they're called the Archons and in a lot of theologies they are the creators of reality so you could almost call them the creators of the game and then there's a chief Archon I can't think of his name right now anyway they feed on energy they prefer negative energy so fear hate anger all of those things

And in a lot of theologies, they are the creators of reality. So you could almost call them the creators of the game. And then there's a chief archon, I can't think of his name right now. Anyway, they feed on energy. They prefer negative energy. So fear, hate, anger, all of those things. Now, I don't take quite the...

Now, I don't take quite the dark side that a lot of theologies do with the Archons because again, as souls, I don't think we'd enter into something that was just like really awful, horrible. But again, you know, what's awful, horrible? Everybody wants to experience what they experience. So I would say that every turn has a number of things that are designed to get in our way of accomplishing what we were set out to do on the turn.

dark side that lot of theologies do with the Archons because again, as souls, I don't think we'd enter into something that was just like really awful, horrible. But again, know, what's awful, horrible? Everybody wants to experience what they experience. So I would say that every turn has a number of things that are designed to get in our way of accomplishing what we were set out to do on the turn. hence making the game even more interesting. so from different discussions and talks I've had with many, people, there have been at least some anecdotal evidence that some of these people have been here for many, many, many turns because they've gotten lost into the material side of the game or just the whole...

hence making the game even more interesting. so from different discussions and talks I've had with many, people, there have been at least some anecdotal evidence that some of these people have been here for many, many, many turns because they've gotten lost into the material side of the game or just the whole...

process of being in the game versus necessarily getting things done. And then, you know, there's more rules beyond that, which the book covers, but the idea that we're in here experiencing emotion and that we are, we have the ability to achieve certain things then gets to where you were asking. So where does fear come from? Fear and doubts are part of the game mechanism to keep you stuck.

process of being in the game versus necessarily getting things done and Then you know, there's more rules beyond that which the book covers but the idea that we're in here experiencing emotion and that we are We have the ability to achieve certain things then gets to where we were asking. So where does fear come from? fear and doubts are part of the game mechanism to keep you stocked Okay.

from getting things accomplished, from moving on to the next turn. When you have fear come up, what is it really? Well, it's just stopping you. It's keeping you from doing something. Now, again, back to the Silver Two Tiger days, or in the case of modern, if somebody's coming to try to mug you, but again, that's part of the construct, right? And so...

from getting things accomplished, from moving on to the next turn. When you have fear come up, what is it really? Well, it's just stopping you. It's keeping you from doing something. Now, again, back to the severe two tiger days, or in the case of modern, if somebody's coming to try to mug you, but again, that's part of the construct, right? And so... and stuff. .

I've had people when I've had this discussion say, well, no, that doesn't make sense because I've had some really horrible things happen in my life. And I said, I totally get that. And I've even had my dad get extremely mad at me when I first explained this concept. says, life is serious. It's not a game. And I said, well, yeah, football players don't consider their game to be a game. They consider it to be pretty darn serious. And yes, there are horrible things that happen, but as a soul,

I've had people when I've had this discussion say, well, no, that just makes sense because I've had some really horrible things happen in my life. And I said, I totally get that. I've even had my dad get extremely mad at me when I first explained this concept. says, life is serious. It's not a game. And I said, well, yeah, football players don't consider their game to be a game. They consider it to be pretty darn serious. yes, there are horrible things that happen, but as a soul, Thanks. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

existing outside of time, trying to experience emotions across the board, it kind of makes sense because even as humans, there are a fair number of humans that really enjoy horror movies. Why? I'm not a particular horror movie fan, but I know friends that are, and that's what they like to go see. Okay, I get it. So.

existing outside of time, trying to experience emotions across the board, it kind of makes sense because even as humans, there are a fair number of humans that really enjoy horror movies. Why? I'm not a particular horror movie fan, but I know friends that are, and that's what they like to go see. Okay, I get it. So... Yeah.

when these horrible things happen to people, one of the things that I've found, and I haven't dove into a lot of them, because some people are very sensitive because they're horrible things, but what I have found in a lot of cases that when something really horrible at the time happened, it completely put them on a different track, and they started growing in a whole different way that they would not have done most likely if they hadn't hit this particular horrible thing.

when these horrible things happen to people, one of the things that I found, and I haven't dove into a lot of them, because some people are very sensitive because they're horrible things. But what I have found in a lot of cases that when something really horrible at the time happened, it completely put them on a different track. And they started growing in a whole different way that they would not have done most likely if they hadn't hit this particular horrible thing. Okay. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. mean, I think, is it Victor Frenkel who wrote, the, was in the holic, he was in the concentration camps. Yeah. And wrote about, what's the title of the book? Is it like man's search for meaning or, yeah, but I, I haven't read it yet, but I've heard enough about it. And just his perspective is that the one thing that you, I mean, I think, is it Victor Frenkel who wrote, he was in the concentration camps. And wrote about, what's the title of the book? Is it like Man's Search for Meaning or? I don't know. Yeah, but I haven't read it yet, but I've heard enough about it. just his perspective is that the one thing that you,

the I don't know.

cannot have taken away from you is how you choose to see something. And so many stories, yes, of horrible things happening, but it strips everything down to where, you know, the one thing that you still have complete control over is your perspective. Is you. Is you, yeah. And it's... cannot have taken away from you is how you choose to see something. And so many stories, yes, of horrible things happening, but it strips everything down to where, you know, the one thing that you still have complete control over is your perspective, is you, yeah.

is you.

And it's a liberating experience that I think a lot of people do use for good when bad things happen to kind of empower themselves. However, I think that a lot of people do operate in life specifically because it is a finite game. a liberating experience that I think a lot of people do use for good when bad things happen to kind of empower themselves. However, I think that a lot of people do, you know, operate in life specifically because it is a finite game, because, you know, people talk about, we're the only species that has a You know, people talk about, we're the only species that has an awareness of our impending end. You know, we know that we will all die. There is no question, we will all die. And yet we don't talk about it. We try to spend a lot of time avoiding it. And it drives a lot of that fear and that doubt and that avoidance of these deeper things and these deeper emotions. Yeah. So. an awareness of our impending end. We know that we will all die. There is no question, we will all die. And yet we don't talk about it. We try to spend a lot of time avoiding it. And it drives a lot of that fear and that doubt and that avoidance of these deeper things and these deeper emotions. So you mentioned time and that immediately got me thinking about

I hate complaining about your chances.

You mentioned time and that immediately got me thinking about our own awareness of our mortality and the finiteness of this experience. And the title of your book being the infinity within, just wanted to talk a little bit, hear what you think a little bit more around why is infinity inside of us as a soul and why is time so important? our own awareness of our mortality and the finiteness of this experience. And the title of your book being the, know, infinity within, I just wanted to talk a little bit, hear what you think a little bit more around, you know, why is infinity inside of us as a soul and why is time so important for this experience on earth? for this experience on Earth. So.

How do I answer that?

how do I answer that?

So if.

So if We start with the concept that we're in the game of Earth and that we as souls that exists in eternity, meaning outside of time, chose to come into this fourth dimensional place. That we chose it specifically for what it has going on. And with time being the primary motivator, I said before, the only thing I could come up with that is unique.

We start with the concept that we're in the game of Earth and that we as souls that exist in eternity, meaning outside of time, chose to come into this fourth dimensional place. Then we chose it specifically for what it has going on. And with time being the primary motivator, like I said before, the only thing I could come up with that is unique is the experiencing of emotions, of these feelings. And that probably would be interesting to an infinite being. And they would not be able to really feel the depth of emotion if, number one, they didn't agree to put their abilities aside, because if I didn't do that,

is the experiencing of emotions, of these feelings. And that probably would be interesting to an infinite being. And they would not be able to really feel the depth of emotion if, number one, they didn't agree to put their abilities aside because... If I didn't do that and my favorite pet gets run over, it's like, no, it just didn't happen. And I just change it. And if I, even if I know I could change it at a whim, then I'm not going to feel the depth of the emotion from that thing, whether it's good or So the rules are really important, just like in game of Monopoly or in the game of football. There, there's certain rules that

and my favorite pet gets run over, it's like, no, it just didn't happen. And I just change it. And even if I know I could change it at a whim, then I'm not going to feel the depth of the emotion from that thing, whether it's good or bad. So the rules are really important, just like in game of Monopoly or in the game of football. There's certain rules that... that exist in order to make the game challenging, fun, interesting, and time-based. And so as souls, we come in, I would argue that our physical manifestation is an avatar for our soul, and that we exist in the material world. then material becomes kind of a

that exists in order to make the game challenging, fun, interesting, and time-based. And so as souls, we come in, I would argue that our physical manifestation is an avatar for our soul and that we exist in the material world and then material becomes kind of a fuzzy place as well because you've got quantum physics going on, you've got quantum entanglement, you've got the fact that we're built out of atoms that aren't physical anyway. And so, you know, there's a lot of different things and then the idea, you know, there's many different thoughts of construct where, go all the way to Schrodinger's cap, where

fuzzy place as well because you've got quantum physics going on, you've got quantum entanglement, you've got the fact that we're built out of atoms that aren't physical anyway. And so, you know, there's a lot of different things. And then the idea, you know, there's many different thoughts of construct where, we'll go all the way to Schrodinger's cap, where what we believe and see becomes real once we believe and see it. And is it real for does it, know, the old question, does a tree make a noise if nobody's there to hear it when it fall? So there's just a lot of really interesting questions that mankind or humankind has been playing with around these ideas. And I would say that comes from a place of soul.

what we believe and see becomes real once we believe and see it. And is it real before? it, you know, the old question, does a tree make a noise if nobody's there to hear it when it falls? So there's just a lot of really interesting questions that mankind or humankind has been playing with around these ideas. And I would say that comes from a place of soul.

meaning that ultimately we recognize what and who we are and we're as avatars connected to it, but not consciously in control of it to a point. And when I say that, I would argue that your different spiritual leaders, your...

meaning that ultimately we recognize what and who we are and we're as avatars connected to it, but not. consciously in control of it to a point. And when I say that, I would argue that your different spiritual leaders, your Jesus Christ, your Buddha, and then as you get more modern, you've got your Eckhart Tolles, which are the ones that talked about in the book. And then I used one that drove my mom crazy or has driven my mom crazy, which is Elon Musk.

Jesus Christ, your Buddha. And then as you get more modern, you've got your Eckhart Tolles, which are the ones I talked about in the book. And then I use one that drove my mom crazy or has driven my mom crazy, which is Elon Musk. He's not necessarily a spiritual leader, but he was consistently told he can't do things and then consistently turned around and did things. So you can't land rockets.

He's not necessarily a spiritual leader, but he was consistently told he can't do things and then consistently turned around and did things. So you can't land rockets. You can't build a car business in today's industry. will fail. He's completely shaken up the material world because he hasn't taken fear and doubt. I I'm sure he has them. Thanks.

You can't build a car business in today's industry, it will fail. I mean, he's completely shaken up the material world because he hasn't taken fear and doubt. I mean, I'm sure he has them. I'm sure, I don't know how many people know the story of Tesla going almost bankrupt about three or four times and he would sleep on the factory floor.

Thank I'm sure I don't know how many people know the story of Tesla going almost bankrupt about three or four times and he would sleep on the factory floor and work a day in and pay out in order to get the company to survive. So I'm sure during that time he was feeling fear and probably had some doubts, but he surpassed it. Now, why do I say all that? I would argue that all of these spiritual leaders don't want to be on a pedestal.

and work day in and day out in order to get the company to survive. So I'm sure during that time, he was feeling fear and probably had some doubt, but he surpassed it. Now, why do I say all that? I would argue that all of these spiritual leaders don't wanna be on a pedestal. I think what they wanted to do and what they've been trying to do is say, hey,

words. I think what they wanted to do and what they've been trying to do is say, hey, kind of like Jesus told his disciples, you will do everything I do and you'll do much more. You have to believe in what you are. So instead of being up here and this and everybody gets to do what they want to do, but I would suggest just even with taking a look at. Yes.

kind of like Jesus told his disciples, you will do everything I do and you'll do much more. But you have to believe in what you are. So instead of being up here and this, everybody gets to do what they wanna do, but I would suggest just even with taking a look at Christianity is instead of maybe putting Jesus up here on a pedestal of saying, maybe he was a teacher trying to really teach you and remind you of what you are.

you Christianity is instead of maybe putting Jesus up here on a pedestal of saying, maybe he was a teacher trying to really teach you and remind you of what you are. It, you know, a lot of the, the things that you're talking about came out of obviously your own natural curiosity and your own desire for knowledge and, and questions, and, and pulling on strings to keep. It, you know, a lot of the things that you're talking about came out of obviously your own natural curiosity and your own desire for knowledge and questions and pulling on strings to keep you know, saying, well, what if, and well, why? And a lot of what I find very interesting is the notion of creativity. curiosity is such an important part of that. And, you know, and I do think that we get a lot of it beat out of our, beat out of us, or we're afraid of it, or a lot of people are out there saying, well, I'm not creative, or I haven't learned how to be curious. I'm not a curious person, but is it? You know, saying, what if, and well, why? And a lot of what I find very interesting is the notion of creativity and curiosity is such an important part of that. And, you know, and I do think that we get a lot of it beat out of our, beat out of us, or we're afraid of it, or a lot of people are out there saying, well, I'm not creative, or I haven't learned how to be curious. I'm not a curious person, but is it? Elias is in the book. Elias is the mentor. Right. And Elias doesn't provide answers. He helps teach about better questions. And so, you know, on the journey that we're all on and that you, think, are proposing, like, here's a different kind of and some ways to go down this, go through this game on Earth or game of Earth. Elias is in the book.

Elias is the mentor, correct.

Right, and Elias doesn't provide answers. He helps teach about better questions. And so, you on the journey that we're all on and that you, think, are proposing, like, here's a different kind of and some ways to go down this, go through this game on Earth, or game of Earth. How important is curiosity and asking questions? How important is curiosity and asking questions? Near the top. Yeah. Because, you know, was interesting, a couple of sentences ago, you used the words beaten out of us. In today's world, I would argue that much of our school systems, much of our learning systems that are in place,

near the top because, you know, it was interesting, a couple sentences ago, you used the words beaten out of us. In today's world, I would argue that much of our school systems, much of our learning systems that are in place, You could argue we're designed. However, do beat the curiosity and the creativity out of us.

You could argue we're designed. However, do beat the curiosity and the creativity out of us. we're not very effective workers if we're busy asking too many questions or wanting to go do our own thing. So I can understand why, you know. Yeah, when we got into the industrial age, the people that were building and controlling the environment, at least here in the United States, Yeah. Well, we're not very effective workers if we're busy asking too many questions or wanting to go do our own thing. So I can understand why, you know.

Yeah. And yeah, when we got into the industrial age, the people that were building and controlling the environment, at least here in the United States, knew that they needed workers. And what does that mean? Well, somebody that comes in on time, works all day and leaves and does that every single day. And our schools are designed around that. We as kids go in, we're supposed to be quiet. We're not supposed to...

knew that they needed workers. And what does that mean? Well, somebody that comes in on time, works all day and leaves and does that every single day. And our schools are designed around that. We as kids go in, we're supposed to be quiet. We're not supposed to be creatively running around. We're not supposed to ask a bunch of questions. We're supposed to listen. We're supposed to remember and we're supposed to take tests and then we go home.

be creatively running around. We're not supposed to ask a bunch of questions. We're supposed to listen. We're supposed to remember, and we're supposed to take tests, and then we go home. Unfortunately, I did not do well in that environment. I had a few teachers that I got along with very well and did very well with them and the rest of them not so much. But you're absolutely right. I would argue every single person is extremely creative and has a ton of curiosity once they reach back into who they were as a child before it was beaten out of them or taken out of them.

Fortunately, I did not do well in that environment. I had a few teachers that I got along with very well and did very well with them and the rest of them not so much. But you're absolutely right. I would argue every single person is extremely creative and has a ton of curiosity once they reach back into who they were as a child before it was beaten out of them or taken out of you.

or told you need to be quiet until talked to, or you need to do this at this time when you're told. Once you start pulling away those beliefs and looking at the doubts and fears that fear that they create, because we were taught to fear if we exist or do things outside of the construction that has been given us, we're embarrassed. We're told that, that's a horrible thing to do. That's really bad.

or told you need to be quiet until talked to, or you need to do this at this time when you're told. Once you start pulling away those beliefs and looking at the doubts and fears that fear that they create, because we were taught to fear if we exist or do things outside of the construction that has been given us, we're embarrassed. We're told that, that's a horrible thing to do. That's really bad. You know, Sally, why were you yelling when you should have been quiet in this place and all these different things? Yeah, a lot of that stuff has been built into us. Yeah, the school system and the nature of capitalism and the industrial revolution. I mean, even just the the way that power has manifested in in structures meant to keep people, you know, serving a certain

Sally, why were you yelling when you should have been quiet in this place and all these different things? Yeah, a lot of that stuff's been built into us.

Yeah, the school system and the nature of capitalism and the industrial revolution and I mean, even just the way that power has manifested in structures meant to keep people serving a certain need or fulfilling a role of the powerful does keep people out of need or fulfilling a role of the powerful does keep people out of these questions and this curiosity and does use fear and doubt as a way to keep those guardrails in place. How do you encourage people or how does the book help people feel more comfortable being curious, being more creative? these questions and this curiosity and does use fear and doubt as a way to keep those guardrails in place. How do you encourage people or how does the book help people feel more comfortable being curious, being more creative? Because I don't think it's a switch you can flip. because I don't think it's a switch you can flip. Well, it is and it isn't. OK. It absolutely is a switch. However, we're taught that it's not. OK. Say more. So the book, I intentionally wrote it. It's kind of what would be called a non-fictional memoir with a fictional set of characters.

Well, it is and it isn't. It absolutely is a switch. However, we're taught that it's not. So the book, I intentionally wrote it. It's kind of what would be called a non-fictional memoir with a fictional set of characters. Gabriel or Gabe, who's the main character, is who you follow through the book.

OK. Okay, say more. huh. Gabriel or Gabe, who's the main character, is who you follow through the book. He meets Elias, who, as you said, asks a lot of questions and is not there to preach or to tell Gabe what to do. He asks questions to get Gabe to think about the answers and come up with his own. So the book is really designed to take the reader on Gabe's path. And then you can take what you want out of it. None of it, some of it, all of it.

He meets Elias who, as you said, asks a lot of questions and is not there to preach or to tell Gabe what to do. He asks questions to get Gabe to think about the answers and come up with his own. So the book is really designed to take the reader on Gabe's path and then you can take what you want out of it, none of it, some of it, all of it, but to get to the answer to your question, the book...

But to get to the answer to your question, the book actually approaches it, approaches that question with the answer through the story. And that is when we doubt ourselves or we're in fear of doing something or we want to enable curiosity and get our curiosity back.

actually approaches that question with the answer through the story. And that is when we doubt ourselves or we're in fear of doing something or we want to enable curiosity and get our curiosity back. As I said, it can be a flip switch and let me, I'll digress a minute. Let's take a look at a flip switch of an NDE, near death experience. I had a situation happen where I was going down the road and it was snowy and I had a drunk driver driving at me at a very high speed. I was also younger, so I was driving at a high speed, higher than I probably should have in those conditions.

As I said, it can be a flip switch and let me, I'll digress a minute. Let's take a look at a flip switch of an NDE, near death experience. I had a situation happen where I was going down the road and it was snowy and I had a drunk driver driving at me at a very high speed. I was also younger, so I was driving at a high speed. higher than I probably should have in those conditions. And I had a choice. I had to get off on the side of the road or get hit. And so I went off on the side, but then by doing so, after he passed by me, I now had a new problem. The snow was sucking me down the slope towards this concrete pylon of a bridge. And...

And I had a choice. I had to get off on the side of the road or get hit. And so I went off on the side, but then by doing snow, after he passed by me, I now had a new problem. The snow was sucking me down the slope towards this concrete pylon of a bridge. And all I can remember is this huge flash of energy and light. And then the car went

I've done that by this. All I can remember is this huge flash of energy and light. And then the car went perpendicular across the road and I ended up shearing about six trees off and the car was completely demolished. It took three wreckers to pull the car out of the trees. And I didn't have a scratch on me, like not even an abrasion. So there's an example of that switch part I'm talking about.

perpendicular across the road and I ended up shearing about six trees off and the car was completely demolished. It took three wreckers to pull the car out of the trees and I didn't have a scratch on me, like not even an abrasion. So there's an example of that switch part I'm talking about. One of the things that's interesting is that when we're faced with that type of thing,

Bye. Mm-hmm. One of the things that's interesting is that when we're faced with that type of thing, doubt and the illusion completely part. We have a choice. Now, a lot of people would argue that fate is your choice. I would argue that we each have the choice if we become aware of it or if it becomes aware of us is another way of saying it.

Doubt and the illusion completely part. We have a choice. Now, a lot of people would argue that fate is your choice. I would argue that we each have the choice if we become aware of it, or if it becomes aware of us is another way of saying it. So at that particular point, I made a choice or somebody made a choice outside of normal, and I did not get hurt or get killed.

So at that particular point, I made a choice or somebody made a choice outside of normal and I did not get hurt or get killed. And, but when I got out of the car and looked at the little half inch piece of snow where the car changed 90 degrees. Now, granted, I was going 60 miles an hour. So you tell me in physics that we're taught how that happens. I can't come up with a way. However, what I got out of that was it wasn't my time. Thanks. Thank

But when I got out of the car and looked at the little half inch piece of snow where the car changed 90 degrees, now granted I was going 60 miles an hour, so you tell me in physics that we're taught how that happens. I can't come up with a way. However, what I got out of that was it wasn't my time. So now to the question you're asking for all of us, including myself, I don't want to do this every time I have to.

Mm-hmm. So now to the question you're asking for all of us, including myself, I don't want to do this every time I have to pierce out, right? I mean, that's just a really scary way of piercing doubt. How do you do it in little parts? How do you do it in a more realistic way or what's a better way of saying it, a less catastrophic way? And that would be little tiny pieces of time.

pierced out, right? I mean, that's just a really scary way of piercing doubt. How do you do it in little parts? How do you do it in a more realistic way or what's a better way of saying it, a less catastrophic way? And that would be little tiny pieces at a time. Through the infinity within and Gabe's journey, near towards the end, there's this place called

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Through the infinity within and Gabe's journey, near towards the end, there's this place called the Orchard. And he goes through this concept that, so in the book, it's called the Orchard Illusions, which is our reality. The Orchard Hush is where we start tapping into our curiosity, our questions, and start stripping doubt away.

the orchard. And he goes through this concept that, so in the book it's called the orchard illusions, which is our reality. The orchard hush is where we start tapping into our curiosity, our questions, and start stripping doubt away and actually starting to get in touch with what we really are. So what happens is,

and actually starting to get in touch with what we really are. So what happens is, is the very first thing that he consciously makes a choice to do, he's in an orchard in an area of the country where Cardinals don't go. And so he gave decides to manifest a Cardinal. And through this process,

is the very first thing that he consciously makes a choice to do. He's in an orchard in an area of the country where cardinals don't go. And so he gave decides to manifest a cardinal. And through this process, a cardinal does appear for him. Now, in our normal way of rationalizing, somebody could say, well, that bird flew off

a cardinal does appear for him. in our normal way of rationalizing, somebody could say, well, that bird flew off paths and just happened to come a few states over and fly there. they just saw something that was red and it wasn't the cardinal. I mean, there's many excuses we come up to support the illusion. But what you can do is you can, I'll take another side.

and just happen to come a few states over and fly there. Or they just saw something that was red and it wasn't the cardinal. I mean, there's many excuses we come up to support the illusion. But what you can do is you can, I'll take another side quest. There's actually a school in India right now that are teaching the kids

you So. There's actually a school in India right now that are teaching the kids how to use telekinesis. Wow. And the way they do it is they have a whole bunch of kids in the classroom with little needles standing up and a little piece of paper folded over the top and a little dome. And they sit there and they concentrate on getting it to spin. Wow.

how to use telekinesis. And the way they do it is they have a whole bunch of kids in a classroom with little needles standing up and a little piece of paper folded over the top and a little dome. And they sit there and they concentrate on getting it to spin. Now that seems really simple and maybe not so important, but here's what's really fascinating. And I've seen this within myself and I have to assume that most people feel this as well. You're sitting there and you slightly start moving it. And there's two incredibly powerful emotions that run through me when I start doing things that are not normal. The first is exhilaration.

Now that seems really simple and maybe not so important, but here's what's really fascinating. And I've seen this within myself and I have to assume that most people feel this as well. You're sitting there and you slightly start moving it. And there's two incredibly powerful emotions that run through me when I start doing things that are not normal. The first is exhilaration. my God, I'm doing it. And almost immediately behind it is, shit, I'm doing it. And there's fear that pops up. I can't do this. I shouldn't be doing this or all kinds of things. What does this mean? What does it mean? Where am I going? Where is this going to take me? All these things pop up. And every time I break a rule, a perceived rule,

my God, I'm doing it. And almost immediately behind it is, shit, I'm doing it. And there's fear that pops up. I can't do this, I shouldn't be doing this, or all kinds of things. What does it mean? Where am I going? Where is this gonna take me? All these things pop up. And every time I break a rule, a perceived rule, I go through

What does this mean? I go through the first emotion, my goodness, I did it, and then, crap, now what? Yeah, it's scary. And then what you need to do is kind of say, okay, well, why am I afraid of this? Where is this coming from? Where is this fear? Where is this emotion? Where is this feeling? And then go back to doubt and say, okay, but I did it. It moved, let's do a little bit more. And every time you face the fear and go back to removing doubt,

The first emotion, my goodness, I did it. And then, crap, now what? And then what you need to do is kind of say, okay, well, why am I afraid of this? Where is this coming from? Where is this fear? Where is this emotion? Where is this feeling? And then go back to doubt and say, okay, but I did it. It moved, let's do a little bit more. And every time you face the fear and go back to removing doubt, okay, I got it to spin a tiny bit. Was that just the?

It's scary. I got it to spin a tiny bit. Was that just the earth shifting? Did a breeze sneak under the glass and move it? Or did I really move it? And then you do it little bit more and you move it a little bit more and pretty soon you get pretty adapted moving it around in both directions. Well, once you do that, you've created a huge freedom.

Earth shifting? Did a breeze sneak under the glass and move it? Or did I really move it? And then you do it a little bit more and you move it a little bit more. And pretty soon you get pretty adapted moving it around in both directions. Well, once you do that, you've created a huge freedom. And so for me, what happens, I had things through my childhood and life that got me kind of ahead of the game. I would argue that almost all of us have had those kinds of things happen, but we've been told they didn't happen or we made them up or they aren't real. it was one of my favorites is the coincidence. Many years ago, probably when I was in my teens,

And so for me, what happened is I had things through my childhood and life that got me kind of ahead of the game. I would argue that almost all of us have had those kinds of things happen. We've been told they didn't happen or we made them up or they aren't real. it was one of my favorites is the coincidence. Many years ago, probably when I was in my teens,

I used to go to coffee shops. In fact, there was a college that I used to go to and I'd have random people come up and start telling me their life story or what was important to them at that time. They'd sit down. I mean, at my table, I didn't ask them to sit down. They just did. And they start talking and then we'd talk and then they'd get up and they'd leave. And it's like, okay, fascinating. But when I paid attention to that,

I used to go to coffee shops. In fact, there was a college that I used to go to and I'd have random people come up and start telling me their life story or what was important to them at that time. They'd sit down. I mean, at my table, I didn't ask them to sit down. They just did. And they start talking. And then we talk and then they'd get up and they'd leave. And it's like, okay, fascinating. But when I paid attention to that,

what I found was there was something they had said and done that I needed to hear. And it turns out there was something I said and done that they needed to hear. The original title for this book was The Soul Path. And the reason behind that was that what I figured is that we all have soul paths or what I call soul mates, which is a term that's used.

what I found was there was something they had said and done that I needed to hear. And it turns out there was something I said and done that they needed to hear. The original title for this book was the Soul Path. And the reason behind that was that what I figured is that we all have soul paths or what I call soul mates, which is a term that's used.

But you can have a one minute soulmate, you can have a 30 minute soulmate, you can have a one hour soulmate, you can have a month, a year, whatever. These people at that time, their soul and my soul needed to meet, have whatever interchange happened, and then we're done. Now, was that a coincidence? And I've came up with a term, some people find it pretty funny, I did it on purpose.

But you can have a one minute soulmate, you can have a 30 minute soulmate, can have a one hour soulmate, can have a month, a year, whatever. These people at that time, their soul and my soul needed to meet, have whatever interchange happens, and then we're done. Now, was that a coincidence? Let's do that. I've came up with a term, some people find it pretty funny, I did it on purpose. I said there are no such thing as no such things as coinkidinks.

I said there are no such thing as, no such things as coinkedinks.

So

Because those things aren't coincidences. Those are not coincidence. They're happening. And the more we become aware of them happening at a conscious level, that actually starts stripping away the doubt, the fear, and takes us back to who we are and what we are, which is where that creativity and that curiosity comes from.

Because those things aren't coincidences. Those are not coincidence. They're happening. And the more we become aware of them happening at a conscious level, that actually starts stripping away the doubt, the fear, and takes back to who we are and what we are, which is where that creativity and that curiosity comes from. Yeah. And you have to be open to it. And I think we've Thanks. Yeah. Yeah, and you have to be open to it. And I think we touched upon this briefly in the pre-recording conversation, but you talk about the orchard and having the quiet and the space to reflect or to explore these things. And we live in a world that is very noisy. don't think touched upon this briefly in the pre-recording conversation, but you you talk about the orchard and finding the, having the quiet and the space to reflect or to explore these things. And we live in a world that is very noisy. I don't think humans were ever meant to have this many inputs of information.

Very noisy.

humans were ever meant to have this many inputs of information and this many sophisticated algorithms doing very smart things to capture our attention and keep us from quiet and keep us from room for curiosity. And I think that's a unique challenge to the times that we are in. How do you suggest people and this many sophisticated algorithms doing very smart things to capture our attention and keep us from quiet and keep us from room for curiosity. And I think that's a unique challenge to the times that we are in. How do you suggest people deal with that? Well, how many of us Deal with that.

Well, how many of us have been at a restaurant and either our family or seen an entire family sitting together like this?

have been at a restaurant and either our family or seen an entire family sitting together like this. These things are both incredibly useful and helpful and in my perspective incredibly damaging to curiosity and creativity. So the first thing is to yeah.

these things are both incredibly useful and helpful and in my perspective incredibly damaging to curiosity and creativity. So the first thing is to for everybody that has a smartphone to take a serious introspective look of how much time they actually spend on it. I have some very close acquaintances that when I bring up that subject get angry at me.

for everybody that has a smartphone to take a serious introspective look of how much time they actually spend on it. I have some very close acquaintances that when I bring up that subject get angry at me. Well, an addict doesn't like to be told that they need to take a look at their addiction. And the response is, I have to have it for work or Well, an addict doesn't like to be told that they need to take a look at their addiction.

And the response is, I have to have it for work or I don't spend that much time on it. Of course, they just spent the last solid hour on it and weren't aware of the hour going by because it sucked them in so much. So being the first step, I would say for the noise is the electronics because you are absolutely spot on. are not only they're incredibly accessible, but the tools are incredibly accessible.

Yeah. I don't spend that much time on it. Of course, they just spent the last solid hour on it and weren't aware of the hour going by because it sucked them in so much. So being the first step, I would say for the noise is the electronics because you are absolutely spot on. are not only they're incredibly accessible, but the tools are incredibly accessible and the marketing and the the Mm-hmm.

and the marketing and the data that's being thrown at us is now extremely targeted to keep our attention.

data that's been thrown at us is now extremely targeted to keep our attention. Yeah. And it's designed in the same way that addictive substances work. It's chemistry, it's your brain, it's... Dorphins. It's hard to compete against. Why is Las Vegas got giant hotels with... Yeah, and it's designed in the same way that addictive substances work. It's chemistry, it's your brain, it's hard to compete against, you know?

DORPHINS Why is Las Vegas got giant hotels with billions of dollars of things going on in the middle of a freaking desert? Positive random reinforcement. One of the most addictive things to humans possible.

Billions of dollars of things going on in the middle of a freaking desert. Positive random reinforcements. One of the most addictive things to humans possible. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to, it's hard to fight it. And I've been pleasantly surprised to hear a lot of stories to the point where I don't think it's an anomaly of, families talking about their Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's hard to fight it. I've been pleasantly surprised to hear a lot of stories to the point where I don't think it's an anomaly of families talking about their kids coming home from college or even their kids in high school who are being much more purposeful about separating themselves from their devices and from that world and from those kids coming home from college or even their kids in high school who are being much more purposeful about separating themselves from their devices and from that world and from those dopamine hits and those endorphins and hearing about schools that are limiting access to having phones while you're in school. So maybe we're gonna make some headway, but you dopamine hits and those endorphins and you know, hearing about schools that are limiting access, you know, to having phones while you're in school. So maybe we're going to make some headway, but you know.

Well, the pendulum is swinging right now. It really, you know, a couple of years ago, it really swang where everybody is like this. Now attention's being drawn to this. And some people, different groups of people are now seeing that not only outside of themselves, but within themselves. And as you said, starting to kind of make solid advancements in pulling away from that.

Well, the pendulum is swinging right now. It really, you know, a couple of years ago, it really swang where everybody is like this. Now attention is being drawn to this. And, and, and some people, different groups of people are now seeing that not only outside of themselves, but within themselves. And as you said, starting to kind of make solid advancements and pulling away from that track. You know, Yeah. You know, there is a very interesting swing also happening that I sense, but again, I never know, it just my perspective or is it truly more of a universal sense of things shifting? But with artificial intelligence, I see a lot more, you know, when we have the ability to create video of anything we could imagine. There is a very interesting swing also happening that I sense, but again, I never know, is it just my perspective or is it truly more of a universal sense of things shifting? But with artificial intelligence, I see a lot more, know, when we have the ability to create video of anything we could imagine. when we can have AI write a novel for us or create a, write a poem or create music or do all of these things that really are about our own creativity. And suddenly we have software and algorithms and code that can do a pretty good job. That there was this, there's this returning to real life. Maybe it's not about when we can have AI write a novel for us or write a poem or create music or do all of these things that really are about our own creativity and suddenly we have software and algorithms and code that can do a pretty good job, that there's this returning to real life. Maybe it's not about all of that stuff. And it is about real life, connecting with other people, feeling those emotions, having those hands-on experiences that aren't perfect, but that were made at a certain time by certain hands at a certain place. And I don't know, I'm curious to see what the future holds for how we engage with our existence as we've... all of that stuff. And it is about real life, connecting with other people, feeling those emotions, having those hands-on experiences that aren't perfect, but that were made at a certain time by certain hands at a certain place. And I don't know, I'm curious to see what the future holds for how we engage with our existence as we've... seem to be at this inflection point with technology and artificial intelligence. I'm curious what you have to see or think around this. seem to be at this inflection point with technology and artificial intelligence. I'm curious what you see or think around those things.

We haven't seen anything yet. AI today are extremely advanced rule engines that use immense amounts of data to come up with very good answers.

We haven't seen anything yet. AI today are extremely advanced rule engines that use immense amounts of data to come up with very good answers.

However...

However,

I would venture to say within the next five to 15 years, we will see what's called a singularity come out of this. The term singularity refers to actually what AI stands for, which is an artificial intelligence, an intelligence that becomes self-aware.

I would venture to say within the next five to 15 years, we will see what's called a singularity come out of this. The term singularity refers to actually what AI stands for, which is an artificial intelligence, an intelligence that becomes self-aware.

I think that

I think that.

We are absolutely coming up on a spiritual.

We are absolutely coming up on a spiritual.

nexus or crux that happens to coincide with when this technology might get born.

Nexus or crux that happens to coincide with when this technology Might get born And I think it's gonna be required And I don't want to put any doom and gloom on anybody I mean different people probably heard different things, but there's a reason that there's movies out there like the matrix or the Terminator. Yeah That what

and I think it's gonna be required. And I don't wanna put any doom and gloom on anybody. mean, different people probably heard different things, but there's a reason that there's movies out there like The Matrix or The Terminator. what's scary to me is that the scientists developing quantum computers and artificial intelligence software and software that's

What's scary to me is that the scientists developing quantum computers and artificial intelligence software and software that's, when I say artificial intelligence, what I really mean is these advanced rule engines. But what's happening is these advanced rule engines are now able to write their own code. So the thing about computers and computer technology is it doesn't forget.

When I say artificial intelligence, what I really mean is these advanced rule engines, but what's happening is these advanced rule engines are now able to write their own code. So, the thing about computers and computer technology is it doesn't forget. It doesn't have the gray matter we have that, that softens the sharpness of data that, that kind of picks and chooses based on where we are in reality.

Right. It doesn't have the gray matter we have that softens the sharpness of data that kind of picks and chooses based on where we are in reality, what we're going to look at. It sees everything it's ever touched and it has access to everything it's ever touched. And its native playground is electronics.

what we're gonna look at, it sees everything it's ever touched and it has access to everything it's ever touched. And its native playground is electronics. So when we get to a point of an artificially intelligent, sentient being,

So when we get to a point of an artificially intelligent sentient being.

Then all bets are off. Hang on, sorry about that. I my phone not to allow things through and of course it didn't do it.

Then all bets are off. Hang on, sorry about that. I my phone not to allow things through and of course it didn't do it. No worries, I'll edit it out. Somebody really wants to get a hold of you. It's my son. Well if you need, if it's an emergency. Can you edit this out? Yeah, I can edit it out. Come on phone. No worries, I'll edit it out. somebody really wants to get ahold of you. well, if you need, if it's an emergency, we can. Yeah, I can edit it out.

Got it. It's my son. Can you guys get this out?

you I can't even find him now.

Jacob.

Jacob.

Sorry about that. Hey guys, I'm.

Sorry about that. That's okay. There he is. Hey guys, I'm... It's okay. There he is.

Okay, I will need to do that later. I am on a very important call right now and I'll have to...

Okay, I will need to do that later. I am on a very important call right now and I'll have to... Okay. Okay, I will call you back, buddy. Okay. I'm gonna have to call you back though, okay?

Okay. I have to go on. Okay, I will call you back, buddy. Okay, I'm gonna have to call you back though, okay? All right, I love you.

Alright, I love you.

Bye.

I'm just going to turn it off. The problem is my computer now, because I have an iMac, also sees this. You can get calls on your computer and yeah. I can't turn it off. Anyway, so I'm glad this is being recorded not live this time. Or everybody'd have a lot of fun on the live version. Okay, so where we are on a singularity.

The is my computer now, because I have an iMac, also sees this.

Right, you can get calls on your computer and yeah.

I can't turn it off. Anyway, so I'm glad this is being recorded not live this time or everybody'd have a lot of fun on the live version. Okay, so where we are on a singularity, again, you've probably noticed this in the talk we've had about the infinity within is I kind of take things, have a strong amount of curiosity, but then I kind of try to strip it down into its base components.

You know. Again, you probably noticed this in the talk we've had about the infinity within is I kind of take things. have a strong amount of curiosity, but then I kind of try to strip it down into its base components. with artificial intelligence, with an intelligent, sentient artificial being that is on technology-based equipment that has the ability to think and do stuff 24-7. Mm-hmm.

with artificial intelligence with an intelligent sentient artificial being that is on technology based equipment that has the ability to think and do stuff 24 seven across a network of computers that now spans the globe and has quantum computing available to it.

across a network of computers that now spans the globe and has quantum computing available to it and Quite frankly anybody thinks they can create a password that's going to keep one of these things out is Smoking fun stuff because it's it's native environment Yeah, and so now you've got this this thing that is going to be reiterating its level of intelligence on a exponential level

And quite frankly, anybody who thinks they can create a password that's going to keep one of these things out is smoking fun stuff because it's, it's native environment. And so now you've got this, this thing that is going to be reiterating its level of intelligence on a exponential level on every piece of technology exists on the planet, because at some point, nothing is going to be able to stop it from touching everything.

on every piece of technology that exists on the planet, because at some point nothing is going to be able to stop it from touching everything, I could only come up with a handful of things of where that's going to take it. One is it's going to go Terminator or Matrix. The other is at the extreme other end is it's going to be so smart and figure out, you know what, I'm just going leave.

I could only come up with a handful of things of where that's gonna take it. One is it's gonna go Terminator or Matrix. The other is at the extreme other end is it's gonna be so smart and figure out, know what, I'm just gonna leave these people do their thing and take off and transmit itself somewhere else. And then you've got all the gray area in between. So it could become a beneficial dictator. And there's many, many movies that...

these people do their thing and take off and transmit itself somewhere else. And then you've got all the gray area in between. So it could become a beneficial dictator. there's many, many movies that play with this. There's iRobot, Isaac Kapanof's story about one being wants to protect the world by suppressing it. And then another being figures out how to help stop you

play with this. There's iRobot, Isaac Asimov's story about, you know, one being wants to protect the world by suppressing it. And then another being figures out how to help stop that process. One of my favorite books that was written back in the 70s is called The Two Faces of Tomorrow. And it's worth reading. It's a very interesting take on where AI could go and might

Uh-huh. that process. One of my favorite books that was written back in the 70s is called The Two Faces of Tomorrow. And it's worth reading. It's a very interesting take on where AI could go and might go. But here's the interesting conundrum of all this. So we've got all this going on in the material world, and then we get back to the infinity within and the concept that we're a soul. And how does that enter into the picture?

So, but here's the interesting conundrum of all this. So we've got all this going on in the material world, and then we get back to the infinity within and the concept that we're a soul. And how does that enter into the picture? Because now you've got this artificial being that is growing at an exponential rate, and then you have these soul beings that are in the game playing with it. Where does that take us? And so it'll be...

Because now you've got this artificial being that is growing at an exponential rate and then you have these soul beings that are in the game playing with it. Where does that take us? Yeah. And so it'll be very interesting to see where this goes. It's not going to stop. You aren't smart enough to just not go certain places. The concept of Pandora's box is real. you Yeah.

Very interesting to see where this goes. It's not going to stop. You aren't smart enough to just not go certain places. The concept of Pandora's box is real. And yeah, we're getting very close to the opening of that. So the best suggestion I can give to everybody is to really work at expanding and doing the best they can and moving forward with what's happening.

No. And yeah, we're getting very close to the opening of that. So the best suggestion I can give to everybody is to really work at expanding and doing the best they can and, moving forward with what's happening, but, but being much more present as a being and not letting the electronics take them over as much as a lot of people have allowed. Yeah. It's been, um, it's been fascinating watching. So.

being much more present as a being and not letting the electronics take them over as much as a lot of people have allowed.

Yeah. Yeah, it's been fascinating watching the birth of the personal computer and then moving into the internet and smartphones and the iPhone and now these platforms, these channels where we connect and interact and the birth of the personal computer and then moving into the internet and smartphones and the iPhone. And now these platforms, these channels where we connect and interact and with COVID really highlighting how fragile our physical ecosystem can be during a pandemic and how reliant we can suddenly become. You know, with COVID really highlighting how fragile our physical ecosystem can be during a pandemic and how reliant we can suddenly become on all of this technology for our sense of connecting with the world. And yet, you know, I think there's a lot of people that are very lonely and feel very detached from the game of Earth. of this technology for our sense of connecting with the world. And yet, I think there's a lot of people that are very lonely and feel very detached from the game of earth because it's all being lived and experienced through the haze and structure of electronics. because it's all being lived and experienced through the haze and structure of electronics.

Yeah, the only thing is we have six senses and some will take you as far as 15. The electronics in the phone take us down to two.

So, have six senses and some will take you as far as 15. The electronics in the phone take us down to two. Yeah. Yeah.

So our smell's not really involved, our touch, our auras interacting, our energy, all those things are no longer connecting. I I would argue that we are all connected, but not when we're in place with each other. And I would say the electronics shields us from what we are.

So our smell's not really involved, our touch, our auras interacting, our energy, all those things are no longer connecting. I I would argue that we are all connected, but not when we're in place with each other. And I would say the electronics shields us from what we are.

and all of our senses are being trimmed or curtailed extensively when we use electronics instead of sitting in the same room and actually having a conversation.

And all of our senses are being trimmed or curtailed extensively when we use electronics instead of sitting in the same room and actually having a conversation. Yeah. It's not a good surrogate. So, you know, talking about artificial intelligence and the singularity and super intelligence and all of the things that could happen. Yeah, it's not a good surrogate. So, you know, talking about artificial intelligence and the singularity and superintelligence and all of the things that could happen, that brings us back to fear. Right. And there's a lot of people out there going, well, who cares? Like, why bother? The computers are going to take over or whatever. that brings us back to fear, right? And there's a lot of people out there going, well, who cares? Like, why bother? The computers are gonna take over or whatever. Or what is the purpose of all of this? Maybe we're in a simulation. mean, maybe there's... Maybe we're already in the matrix. Maybe so. How do you, you talk about having fun, wanting to, it's a game, but have fun. or what is the purpose of all of this? Maybe we're in a simulation. mean, maybe there's, maybe so. How do you, you talk about having fun, wanting to, it's a game, you wanna have fun. So how do you recommend people don't kind of fall into these, because I think,

Maybe we're already in the Matrix.

So how do you recommend people don't kind of fall into these? Because I think what it can do is that fear can really paralyze people from fully experiencing their life. How do you both be curious and ask questions and learn about all the crazy things that are going on, but also not get bogged down by the fear? What it can do is that fear can really paralyze people from fully experiencing their life. How do you both be curious and ask questions and learn about all the crazy things that are going on, but also not get bogged down by the fear?

Absolutely. Absolutely. I think the short answer is the serenity prayer. I can't change what all those scientists are doing. Because I've been in the technology space as long as I have, which is when the very first personal computers became available, even just a little earlier than that. So I've been in this technology space for pretty much all of it. And I know what...

I think the short answer is the serenity prayer. I can't change what all those scientists are doing. Because I've been in the technology space as long as I have, which is when the very first personal computers became available, even just a little earlier than that. So I've been in this technology space for pretty much all of it. And I know what huh. Yeah.

I have a pretty strong idea of what's coming up and I understand what quantum computing can and represents as far as computational ability and where our technology is going. Now, if I went down the dark side and let what I know completely control me, then yeah, it would be like, well, what's the point? Well, that gets back to the question of what are we?

I have a pretty strong idea of what's coming up and I understand what quantum computing can and represents as far as computational ability and where our technology is going. Now, if I went down the dark side and let what I know completely control me, then yeah, it would be like, well, what's the point? Well, that gets back to the question of what are we?

If we have a soul and we chose this game, and when I say game, I don't mean non-serious game, I mean construct that has rules that we entered into to accomplish things and to have fun and to learn and build from. Well, if we chose that, then we chose to be in this time. And these things are part of what we agreed to play in.

If we have a soul and we chose this game, and when I say game, I don't mean non-serious game. mean construct that has rules that we entered into to accomplish things and to have fun and to learn and build from. Well, if we chose that, then we chose to be in this time. And these things are part of what we agreed to play in.

So instead of letting it control us, take back your control, start stripping away doubt, start looking at what is it that you really want to do? Where do you want to go in life? And a lot of people say, well, I can't, I have to work, I have to do these things. Well, yeah, we all have to do certain things in order to, quote unquote, survive. But within that are many, choices.

So instead of letting it control us, take back your control, start stripping away doubt, start looking at what is it that you really want to do? Where do you want to go in life? And a lot of people say, well, I can't, I have to work, I have to do these things. Well, yeah, we all have to do certain things in order to, quote unquote, survive. But within that are many, many choices.

You know, do I have to have this particular job that makes me need this amount of money in order to have this big house and have these three cars and all this stuff? Or can I go to an Amish community and live without technology at a very low cost of living? These are all choices that we make. And I know it sounds not nice, but they are choices.

You know, do I have to have this particular job that makes me this amount of money in order to have this big house and have these three cars and all this stuff? Or can I go to an Amish community and live without technology at a very low cost of living? These are all choices that we make. And I know it sounds not nice, but they are choices.

some of them are uncomfortable choices and some of them aren't choices that we want to make so we don't but we all get to choose on a day-by-day basis what we're doing. was a what was the saying I actually published it on one of my things every day we are a new person every day we are not the person we were yesterday and we are not the person we'll be tomorrow.

Some of them are uncomfortable choices and some of them aren't choices that we want to make so we don't But we all get to choose on a day-by-day basis what we're doing. There was a What what was the saying I actually published it on one of my things Every day we are a new person every day. We're not the person we were yesterday and we are not the person will be tomorrow

Every day we get to choose what we're going to do because we're brand new or we exist as a brand new entity every single day or every single moment. And I think there's some truth to that.

Every day we get to choose what we're going to do because we're brand new Or we exist as a brand new entity every single day or every single moment And I think there's some truth to that. I would agree And I think that's a very freeing way to um to to think about things so that you can not be paralyzed by fear or doubt or I would agree. And I think that's a very freeing way to think about things so that you cannot be paralyzed by fear or doubt or hopelessness. And I would agree. Being a creative person myself, I think that it's the act of creation that defines every moment we experience. We are in large part the Hopelessness, and I would agree. Being a creative person myself, I think that it's the act of creation that defines every moment we experience. We are in large part the creators of our own experiences. And there are a lot of choices that are baked into that and decisions that we get to make or not make and opinions and perspectives on things we decide to have or not have. creators of our own experiences. And there are a lot of choices that are baked into that and decisions that we get to make or not make and opinions and perspectives on things we decide to have or not have. So those things aren't forced upon us unless we let them.

second.

Exactly. So those things aren't forced upon us unless we let them. Unless we choose that they're forced upon us. Yes, and choose to say that's the case. I think, you know, just a final, it's been a fascinating, you know, I think we could probably talk for days, no doubt. And I do really want to encourage everyone who is listening, if this is interesting to you.

unless we choose that they're forced upon us.

Yes, in short, choose to say that's the case. I think, you know, just a final, it's been a fascinating, you know, I think we could probably talk for days, no doubt. And I do really want to encourage everyone who is listening, if this is interesting to you, pick up Kris's book. It's, you know, I pick up Kris's book, it's, you I think that there's not enough people talking about our existence and our experiences in ways that do kind of break it down. It's tangible. It can unlock so much in your own life. So be curious, read his book, read, you know, all the other things that are out there that might be of interest to you. But Kris, for you, I think that there's not enough people talking about our existence and our experiences in ways that do kind of break it down. It's tangible. It can unlock so much in your own life. So be curious, read his book, read all the other things that are out there that might be of interest to you. But Kris, for you, what do you hope, as kind of a final... What do you hope, as kind of a final thing to talk about, what do you hope that readers and listeners of this conversation can discover about themselves that they didn't know was available? thing to talk about, what do you hope that readers and listeners of this conversation can discover about themselves that they didn't know was available? So by reading through the story of Gabe.

by reading through the story of Gabe. The way I wrote the book is not to tell you what to believe. It's not to preach to you. It's not to make hard decisions for anybody. It's a journey that is designed to be fun. It's where you follow along with Gabe and his questioning of his own reality, his questioning of what is real, going through some very uncomfortable things.

The way I wrote the book is not to tell you what to believe. It's not to preach to you. It's not to make hard decisions for anybody. It's a journey that's designed to be fun. It's where you follow along with Gabe and his questioning of his own reality, his questioning of what is real, going through some very uncomfortable things.

learning some things that might become very useful. So it's really designed. And the reason I wrote it is to give people, one of the things that a lot of people have said is a mirror. As you're reading through it, you get to pick and choose what makes sense and what doesn't. And along the path, hopefully have a lot of fun reading about it. Have a lot of fun enjoying what.

learning some things that might become very useful. So it's really designed. And the reason I wrote it is to give people one of the things that a lot of people have said is a mirror. As you're reading through it, you get to pick and choose what makes sense and what doesn't. And along the path, hopefully have a lot of fun reading about it. Have a lot of fun enjoying what

they go through and Elias takes a pretty humorous approach to the questions and the learning that Gabe goes through. It's designed to be light, it's not designed to be heavy and it's certainly not designed to preach. So I would say that what I hope people get out of this is a feeling of lightening of...

they go through and Elias takes a pretty humorous approach to the questions and the learning that the game goes through. It's designed to be light, it's not designed to be heavy and it's certainly not designed to preach. So I would say that what I hope people get out of this is a feeling of lightning of... Thank

Just another perspective on what might really be there because in the book I suggest very strongly that everything that you need is already there. It's not about fixing things or going out and searching for things. It's all ready inside you and you just need to have that mirror to see it.

Just another perspective on what might really be there because in the book, I suggest very strongly that everything that you need is already there. It's not about fixing things or going out and searching for things. It's all ready inside you and you just need to have that mirror to see it. Well, that's a gift. It's a gift for everyone that I hope. Okay. Well, that is that's a gift. It's a gift for for everyone that I hope folks and I think that it's a gift that you need to be in search of for, know, continuously because it's very easy for doubt to sneak back in and start to close those blinds. So don't stop. folks, and I think that it's a gift that you need to be in search of for, know, continuously, because it's very easy for doubt to sneak back in and start to close those blinds. So don't stop looking and questioning and learning and growing and all of those things through your own creativity and curiosity. And Kris, thank you for joining me on this conversation, in this conversation and for writing. looking and questioning and learning and growing and all of those things through your own creativity and curiosity. And Kris, thank you for joining me on this conversation, in this conversation and for writing all of the books you've written, but especially this one, which I think can be such a gift to so many people. So thank you. all of the books you've written, but especially this one, I think can be such a gift to so many people. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you, Trish.